Posted on 01/07/2009 1:20:28 PM PST by lightman
The original can be roughly translated as "he who doesn't want to work" not "he who doesn't work." The Greek is qelei ergazesqai - qelw meaning to will, desire or intend. The Latin is the same -- "non vult operari". In the days of King James and the Douay-Rheims, "will" and "would" had a stronger meaning than simple futurity, as they do now.
Because of course there are plenty of folks who due to illness, infirmity or age cannot work. And the Church is the first to provide assistance to those folks. They generally do a much better job than the government, too.
No, I think that both sides have been killing too many people, at random. I hope that both sides will stop.
When has the Israeli army hit anything "at random"? Not only have they selected military targets, they have warned civilians in the target's vicinity ahead of time so they can get out. I don't know of any military force that has taken more care to avoid civilian targets.
The problem is that Hamas stores munitions in mosques and hospitals and fires on Israel from them. It uses women and children as human shields, and then parades their bodies around for the television cameras. While murdering Israelis with suicide bombers and random rockets.
Surely you are not suggestive moral equivalence here? That borders on wilful blindness.
The ELCA is part of the radical left National Council of Churches.
They care more about advancing a liberal political agenda than saving souls.
As a matter of fact, they care nothing about saving souls. They do care about advancing a homosexual agenda as well as other anti-American causes.
You should leave. They are hopeless.
Hamas is a radical Muslim terrorist group. They must be destroyed. Israel has every right to defend herself just like the US has a duty to defend it’s citizens from radical Islam, or any other enemy.
The distinction is noted, but I’m not sure it’s really an argument for pastors refraining from drawing the connection between scripture and policy. The thread topic, referencing Lutherans making idiotic observations about the Gaza conflict, is not an argument for pastors remaining silent, for example, on Obama’s demonic abortion record or failed state welfare programs or earth-worship environmentalism. Pastors should be both biblical AND political.
Imagine the Bible without any reference to the names of kings or judges, on the grounds that a name-reference would be “ham-handed” or contrary to 501c3 considerations. Imagine an Old Testament that didn’t divinely reference good and wicked kings by name. If God is setting the example, men of God should follow.
There's a difference between heavy duty political endorsements (for example, that you see from politicking preachers endorsing Democrat politicians that get right up in the pulpit) and a more subtle (but still effective) approach.
Our parochial vicar absolutely nailed Obama to the wall, never mentioned his name and never told anybody who to vote for, but he made it 100 percent clear.
Last April, I joined a Missouri Synod church, because too many ELCA leaders supported ordaining gays. About a week after I joined, my dad (a retired ELCA pastor) told me that the ELCA Committee on Sexuality decided that the ELCA should never ordain gays and that the ELCA should never hold gay weddings. In Nov., I joined a ELCA church.
The ELCA is looking the other way. Bishop Hanson is squarely in the pro-homosexual corner.
Actually, I left before the homosexual issue became the largest issue.
I had had it with their PC magazine. They formed a commission to "study" the issue of abortion just like they form commissions to "study" the issue of homosexuality.
They do this because they're looking for the best language they can use to fool as many people as possible.
My former congregation who is going through the throes of trying to disassociate itself from the ELCA has had the ELCA hierarchy at the church telling them that the Bible is not to be believed as literal. Most of the stories are just that--stories.
They side with every leftwing issue that comes along.
I assume you're more likely to vote Republican than Democrat but I can assure you that the ELCA heirarchy is there to promote Democrats and Democrat ideas.
Please familiarize yourself with the National Council of Churches and the destruction they are bringing to our nation.
Try reading this: http://www.google.com/search?q=ELCA%2C+homosexual+pastor&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
This is only a beginning. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1945094/posts?page=1
My dad wouldn’t hoodwink me. He’s been a very good pastor for 48 years, and he researched this news, extensively, before he gave me the great news.
Please read what I've sent you and I can send much, much more.
How does your dad feel about the issue of homosexuality? I'm only curious as a man my age is also a retired ELCA pastor. As a matter of fact, his father was the pastor who gave me cathechism and confirmed me.
His son, sadly, has bought into the homosexual issue, hook, line and sinker.
The younger ones coming out of the seminaries will be even worse. They know nothing else.
I know a current ELCA pastor who was formerly a state legislator.
Of course he was a hard-core leftist, even voting against a ban on partial birth abortion. I'll never forget the day when I was told he was leaving the legislature to become an ELCA pastor. Why?
This article shows how dangerous is Leon Panetta.
If you're interested you can google Riverside Church and National Council of Churches.
I think you will get to see that I am correct about how radical a bunch is the NCC. They are dangerous and everytime you drop a penney in your church offering plate, you're helping to fund the pro-Marxist/pro-Socialist and pro-communist group.
This group has been a passion of mine for many years.
Also for your info many years ago, Probably about 15 years ago there was a gathering of liberal women of the NCC at a "conference" in St. Paul.
It was instrumental in me leaving the ELCA when I did.
This is what I can find by googling it. I know ELCA women were involved.
"November 4-7, 1993 - The "Re-Imagining" Conference is held at Minneapolis, in recognition of the Ecumenical Decade of Churches in Solidarity with Women (an initiative of the World Council of Churches). Sophia is openly worshiped at a service of milk and honey, and the "miracle of being lesbian, out, and Christian" is celebrated. The doctrine that God and humanity are reconciled through Christ's death on the cross is downgraded. Many participants "bow to the divine in the other person" during worship. The conference's daily newsletter features a question and answer section about Sophia/Wisdom containing quotations taken verbatim from similar materials written by Hal Taussig and distributed at the Eastern Pennsylvania Annual Conference. The newsletter also names Cady, Ronan, and Taussig as being among "a wide range of other theologians and exegetes (who) have written about Sophia/Wisdom. Some Presbyterians and 391 United Mehodists attend the event, including Bishop Susan Morrison. The Women's Division of the General Board of Global Ministries (GBGM) calls "Re-Imagining" its major theological workshop of the 1992-1996 quadrennium and sends its directors and staff to the event all expenses paid. http://www.wfn.org/1998/04/msg00248.html
God bless you on your journey. This is not easy to accept but it is the truth.
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