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To: doc30
Most of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christian fundamentalists.

Most? Really? Who, and how many, do you count as “founding”? What comprises “most”? Have you an x number out of the total that describes the “most” who were Deists? What do you mean by “fundamentalists”? As a term of common art, “fundamentalist” came into popular usage in the late 1970s when many Christians came to understand the necessity of organizing for political self-defense. Earlier the term was used from time to time as part of the narrative surrounding the events encompassing the First and Second Great Awakenings and the other religious revivals that swept through America from the 1730s right on to the 1930s.

Aside from that alleged vast majority of Deists, what were the religious denominations of those pitifully few Founders who were Christian? You have quite a choice to select from: Methodist, Presbyterian, Dutch Reformed, Congregational, Baptist, German Reformed, Episcopal (High, Low, and Broad), Quaker, and even some Catholic (plus surely one or two more I’ve overlooked). Of these, which ones would you consider “fundamentalist”? All were profoundly impacted by the waves of religious revivalism mentioned above, save Episcopal, Quaker, and Catholic who were little affected or not at all.

The Bill of Rights does contain the Establishment clause and, even though the words “separation of CHurch and State” are not specifically there, the meaning is clear that the government cannot favor any religion.

What do you mean “government cannot favor”? Can you be a little more specific? Here, let me help by providing some examples that you can pass on, yea or nay:

a) An association of Christian students holds regular club meetings after school, and are allowed to use school facilities. Improper favoritism, or a proper practice?

b) Four separate Christian congregations have no place to hold their Sunday services, so county government permits them the use of its court house for a joint service, each denomination taking a week to lead the service. Improper favoritism, or a proper practice?

c) The Federal government permits church services to be held in some of its buildings, including the state department and in the capitol itself. Improper favoritism, or a proper practice?

d) The governing body of a state university decides that it will permit their students to hold morning devotionals before class, and to provide meeting places in the university’s lecture halls. Furthermore, the governing body also decides to permit any divinity schools located in the vicinity to use the same halls for Sunday services. Improper favoritism, or a proper practice?

Finally, in the context of the 1st Amendment, what, specifically, does the term establishment mean?

250 posted on 01/09/2009 5:13:12 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: doc30

Oh. The Lutherans. How could I forget the Lutherans, and their participation in the great revival movements of Colonial and Revolutionary America. My apologies to any Lutherans who frequent this forum.


262 posted on 01/10/2009 7:24:11 AM PST by YHAOS
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