Posted on 01/22/2009 8:23:14 PM PST by smokingfrog
BREAKING NEWS CNN (January 22/2009) 3:55pm EST:
KBR, formally Halliburton, a private contractors, through shoddy work caused electrocution deaths of U.S. soldiers in army bases in Iraq.
I refuse to give CNN the hits.
If this company did do shoddy work that resulted in the deaths of our folks, then they should be up on charges. I don’t see how what company it is makes any difference.
If they were negligent and it resulted in death - they should be charged with negligent homicide. What is so confusing about that?
In the case of the fire, I don't think those at fault (if they could ever be identified) even worked for KBR. Don't misunderstand me and think that I'm sticking up for all things KBR. I'm just saying that it can get quite complicated.
Then don't. Just click the link given. :-)
BE suspicious. IF they did it, yes, they deserve to be investigated. But this stinks of libs going after Cheney and HB deep pockets to me. At least they can cause them to rack up amazing legal costs. They have always hated Haliburton and Cheney, too.
I mean, really, they cannot be doing it because they passionately want to protect our soldiers....
There is some amount of truth to this. I’m not directly involved, but sub-contractors were used and some people got hurt or killed.
Funny how CNN has the ability to find a “scoop” when it wants to while at the same time being in the dark on others.
I really can't believe I just saw that! He's freaking giddy!
If they are going to charge somebody with "negligent homicide" they better have a real good case.
They were tasked with building fast, cheap housing in a war zone! It's not going to be very easy to get companies to work for the military if they're going to be sued everytime a single mistake is made.
I don't mean to sound callous over the death of the soldier, because I'm not, but it was a war zone and I'm sure the work is not easy for anybody over there.
By the way, the assclown reporter wrapped up with "Good stuff!" Seriously.
In Afghanistan, host country national did the work, and the military QA/QC signed off after completion. KBR employees were only there to monitor the hajii’s.
“Good Stuff” - Rick Sanchez, CNN
No bias there! None whatsoever! Move along now!
The smug mug “reporter” is definitely over the top. The fact that shoddy work was reported and not corrected is a real problem. Looks like we ma have some FReepers that can provide some insight. I feel sorry for the soldier’s family.
If they’re going after Bush, they’ll go after KBR/Halliburton. In fact, I’m surprised that B.O. didn’t sign an executive order today to disallow any government contracts with them.
There’s always tomorrow.
We’ve known about Brown & Root since LBJ.
Not so, at least not in '06 and '07 when I was there. In the case I'm talking about, I personally know the guy who did the electrical work. HCNs did things like take out trash, clean latrines, wash dishes etc. They also served as translators. I never knew of any HCN doing anything like electrical, plumbing, water treatment, carpentry, food prep, or any other job requiring any kind of specialization. Just general labor and translation.
Military QA/QC did not maintain "direct" supervision over much of anything. They came around and looked things over once in a while, maybe once a month, if that.
It’s one thing to allow a negligence lawsuit, and another altogether to bring criminal charges against the company. Prosecutors typically reserve criminal indictments against companies for companies with widespread criminal activities—companies that are essentially “criminal organizations.” An indictment can bring down a company, and it’s inappropriate if it’s just in response to an isolated incident.
>>If this company did do shoddy work that resulted in the deaths of our folks, then they should be up on charges. I don’t see how what company it is makes any difference.
If they were negligent and it resulted in death - they should be charged with negligent homicide. What is so confusing about that?<<
Agreed.... but
I wish i had confidence that the decision to prosecute will be made independent of politics. If would be grossly unfair if this were prosecuted to punish KBR for doing business with the government in Iraq.
Ok, this is beyond the pale...KBR was a subsidiary of Halliburton. Halliburton started out and has ALWAYS been an oilfield service company, and by oilfield service, I mean well casing cementing, coil tubing, fracturing, wireline, nitrogen, Baroid fluid services, Sperry directional drilling services, NOT construction, electrical or any of the things that KBR did BEFORE they were purchased by Halliburton. KBR was purchased at a time, and then sold because of this exact thing. KBR was causing sensational bad press for Halliburton. They can go after KBR all they want, IF there was an issue. sorry had to rant...
Rick Sanchez, CNN
I think Rush mentioned him today. He was not flattering his assessment.
Funny how CNN has the ability to find a “scoop” when it wants to while at the same time being in the dark on others.
That's because they will report anything that might have a chance of relecting poorly on George W. Bush. It is their mantra.
>>>>>They were tasked with building fast, cheap housing in a war zone!<<<<<<<
Neither am I a cheerleader for KBR/Halliburton, but the good work they did far outstripped the bad at my base. In fact it was amazing to me that they’d constructed what essentially was a small town in the middle of nowhere. And they also ran the housing, commissaries, and infrastructure, all pretty darned weel in my estimation.
There were glitches, like when they ran the feed cable for our huge generator across and on top of a gravel parking lot, which caused the cable to be cut (losing all electricity) when the heavy fuel trucks came by to fill up the gen tanks (ironic that the generators would only fail when the refueling trucks were leaving the parking lot).
In the course of a few weeks the cable was replaced twice (and cut twice again when refueling took place), until Halliburton finally sent a labor crew to dig a trench and bury the cable 1 foot underground, which we’d suggested from the outset.
I'll wait for a credible source.
I wonder if URS has ever been investigated for shotty work.
Actually it was Lady Bird’s Brown and Root.
Further evidence that there’s no reason to watch CNN.
One idiot and their lawyer can sue anyone for anything in America. This may be real and maybe not.
I don't want to get on either the support or bash KBR side. But... in my neighborhood in Dallas, the telephone and cable companies send one person to install service, and they leave the cables lying on top of the alleys where vehicles have to cross them, and a few days later, a jetting crew arrives and buries them below the alley. Sometimes vehicles break the cables before they get buried.
Now on to this issue. It may be that taking the cable burial crew from a more critical priority to immediately bury this cable was more costly or disruptive to other operations than having the temporary outages associated with the cable and the need for replacing the cable a few times. I don't know that... just speculating.
I see nothing wrong with your assessment where I am sitting North of Baghdad.
True, and every THING else was Lady Bird’s. LOL!
Now the prosecutors will have to determine "Who" is criminally liable within the company and prosecute them. Good luck trying to identify an individual who was both ultimately responsible and criminally liable.
This is all just a liberal press wet dream. The actual legal proceedings have about a .001% chance of success in the end. In the meanwhile, the liberal press will milk it for all it's worth, there will be no charges (or dropped charges) two to five years down the road, and everybody in America will "remember" how the evil B&R was "guilty" of negligent homicide.
That's the wash, spin, and repeat cycle of modern journalism.
See post #17.
A company can in fact be charged, but it is rare. Arthur Anderson was indicted, which led directly to its downfall since many people will not do business with a company that is under indictment, whether or not it is convicted. That indictment was quashed by the Supreme Court (I forget the exact reason), but in more extreme cases a company can be indicted.
An isolated case of negligence is not that sort of case, however.
Who gets sued/charged when a parachute fails to open? Who gets charged when the famous M4 jams? Who gets charged when.______ (fill in the blank!)
I'm not defending KBR, But I'm very suspicious of the new US communist regime.
When I was deployed to Iraq from 2005-7 (yes, I got the jumbo deployment) expats generally supervised work down by third country nationals. Most of the third country nationals were from Pakistan and India. Towards the end of my deployment in 2007, local Iraqi firms starting to take over a considerable portion of the work, especially road maintenance and construction of concrete blast barriers. The only supervision of the local Iraqi firms that I observed came from soldiers escorting the workers.
It sounds like a grandstanding Dem lawyer to me.
If there was really gross negligence, rather than honest mistakes, I agree with you.
I think that guy ran over and killed someone while driving, possibly intoxicated. Not sure of the details.
The democrats (especially people like Waxman) are definitely trying to make this into a political issue. As usual, they seem to be more interested in scoring political points than solving the problem.
Things change. I left Bagram in ‘04.
Back then, all new construction was done by HCN’s. KBR Village was constructed by HCN’s. KBR was strictly O&M.
You’re right about grand-standing Dem lawyering...how else
to repay those who contributed big to the ‘cause’ than to boost a career here and there. The Dems hang-out in a pit of vipers all screwing and eating each other while being victims.
I feel for anyone who was stuck at that place. I loathe Bagram like a disease. I spent my time at Kandahar and a couple of FOBs. Considering going back. Not sure if I really want to or not.
Ya, it was hell getting use to walking on all those rocks in KBR village, but they did have a burger king by the PX!
When did that happen? When I departed in '04, we had a PX and a chinese operated coffee shop. That was it!
I don't know how many guys I picked up with ankle sprains in KBR Village. Crutches were at a premium.
Who was oneof the biggest shareholders in Brown and Root - LBJ.
LBJ got a lot richer off Vietnam. Johnson Fence Co had all the fence contracts. He left office the wealthiest Pres except Geo Washington (adjusted for inflation).
Nixon left office essentially broke and he had been a high paid lawyer before he became President.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kellogg,_Brown_and_Root
Following the death of Herman Brown, Halliburton Energy Services acquired Brown & Root in December 1962. According to Dan Briody, who wrote a book on the subject, the company became part of a consortium of four companies that built about 85 percent of the infrastructure needed by the Army during the Vietnam War. At the height of the anti-war movement of the 1960s, Brown & Root was derided as “Burn & Loot” by protesters.
When did that happen? When I departed in '04, we had a PX and a chinese operated coffee shop. That was it! I don't know how many guys I picked up with ankle sprains in KBR Village. Crutches were at a premium.
I was there in 06 and then a FOB. The burgerking used cardboard nickels, dimes, quarters. They were good. Chowhall was excellent.
At that time, the military was saying the base would be there 25 years and they were still building container hooches. You can see it pretty well on google earth.
Only a little excitment, how about a DBIED....Donkey Born ied...LOL,,,, Killed the poor donkey and thats it. LOL
As for going back??? no,.. I'm betting that area (ME) will go nuclear sometime during Odumbo's rein. Even if not, When Iran hits Israel, Bagram will get hit hard at the same time. There were plenty of bomb shelters, but no fallout shelters, at least not in 06.
Of course, Odumbass will blame in on Bush and surrender.
OK. I demobed in March ‘04. In ‘06, I went to Iraq.
I remember the pogs well. In fact, I have a few. I can’t seem to get rid of them since the PX/BX in San Antonio won’t accept them.
Viper DFAC was ok, North DFAC was excellent (and large enough to move around in), the one by the hospital and MWR was the pits though. Another DFAC was also being built on the far side of the airfield by the aircraft junkyard.
We only had two rocket attacks in ‘03-04. Both times, the rocket flew clear over the base and into the village outside the hesco’s. There were a couple large explosions off base caused by the Afghans trying to disassemble old Russian ordnance though.
Agreed. This is only getting publicity because it has anything to do with Iraq. There were three deaths this fall at Kennecott Copper due to shoddy contract work and it didn’t make the front page of anybody’s newspaper.
The libs’ tar and feathering of Halliburton has always been a crock. They scream about the sole-source contracts awarded to Halliburton. I say to them: give me the name of one contractor who protested any of those awards. ONE!! If any contractors had felt they were screwed because they didn’t get to compete, you know as well as I do their Chairman and CEO would’ve been getting interviews by every network under the sun.
Not everything is perfect in a warzone.
Thank you!
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