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Mexico on Edge of Chaos
Newsmax ^ | Jan. 26, 2009 | Jonathan Adam, Christian Science Monitor

Posted on 01/27/2009 10:40:51 AM PST by AuntB

The macabre admission is just the latest indication of the depth of Mexico's drug violence. Some US observers say the cartels now pose a direct threat to the Mexican government's survival, and, by extension, a growing security threat to the US.

The state prosecutors' office said it was looking into more than 450 missing persons' cases from the past eight years.

The Wall Street Journal wrote in an opinion piece that the "body count" in drug-related violence in Mexico so far this year is already 354. It noted that a police commander was recently beheaded in the Mexican state of Chihuahua, an "increasingly popular tactic."

As bad as the violence is, it could get worse, and it is becoming clear that the U.S. faces contagion. In recent months, several important American voices have raised concerns about the risks north of the border.

The paper reported that the US Joint Forces Command in Norfolk, Virginia, "warned recently that an unstable Mexico 'could represent a homeland security problem of immense proportions to the United States.'"

The newspaper said that the US Joint Forces Command report was only one of several alarms being sounded on the security situation south of the border.

Retired U.S. Army Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey, the former U.S. drug agency director, said in a separate analysis on Mexico that the government "is not confronting dangerous criminality -- it is fighting for its survival against narco-terrorism" and could lose effective control of large swaths near the U.S. border.

The outgoing CIA director, Michael V. Hayden, listed Mexico with Iran as a possible top challenge for President Obama.

And former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich said this month that Mexico could turn into a surprise crisis for the new president by year's end.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Mexico
KEYWORDS: aliens; immigration; mexico; narcoterrorism; warnextdoor
"As bad as the violence is, it could get worse, and it is becoming clear that the U.S. faces contagion. In recent months, several important American voices have raised concerns about the risks north of the border."
1 posted on 01/27/2009 10:40:51 AM PST by AuntB
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To: AuntB
I've always thought that we needed a wall.

And I've always thought that a belt of landmines should be included with the wall.

2 posted on 01/27/2009 10:43:49 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: AuntB

“It” moved North of the border a long time ago.

Sad so many that could have helped stop it instead sought to enable it even more by ignoring it for their own purposes.


3 posted on 01/27/2009 10:45:46 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed.)
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To: AuntB

Wonder what resident Zero thinks will happen when it all falls apart in Mexico and we face a rush of 30 or 40 million more illegals in a matter of weeks or months.


4 posted on 01/27/2009 10:46:39 AM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: AuntB
Mexico on Edge of Chaos

Actually, with the Three Stooges -- Barry, Harry and Nancy -- trying to manage the lunatic asylum called DeeCee, this country isn't that far away from going over the top either.

5 posted on 01/27/2009 10:48:11 AM PST by Zakeet (There is only one thing that can kill the liberalism, and that is education)
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To: NormsRevenge

“Sad so many that could have helped stop it instead sought to enable it even more by ignoring it for their own purposes.”

And they still refuse to see it!


6 posted on 01/27/2009 10:49:06 AM PST by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
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To: AuntB
Mexico declared independence in 1810...I can't think of any time since then when it hasn't been on the 'Edge of Chaos.'
7 posted on 01/27/2009 10:49:22 AM PST by americanophile
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To: cripplecreek

They won’t mind if we send the 4th and 7th Infantry Divisions down to the border then? We will have Armored Cavalry available soon too!


8 posted on 01/27/2009 10:49:30 AM PST by CIDKauf (No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar.)
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To: AuntB
This situation is no different from a dozen or so other situations in that we know about it but have taken no steps whatsoever to lessen the danger. We have become a nation that simply can't anticipate and handle its problems. No problem ever gets solved, really solved. They just throw money and blame at it, and then move on to the next problem.

One of these days it's all going to catch up with us. Not to be a parade-pisser, but we are in for tough times. And I don't know the answer.

9 posted on 01/27/2009 10:49:32 AM PST by jwparkerjr (God Bless America!)
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To: AuntB

Only recent history has shown Mexico to have any semblance of a stable government. Fragmentation and revolution is the pattern of Mexico, usually with banditos involved. What is new is that drugs are the catalyst.

Now, perhaps we understand their need for “open borders” and the Mexican government’s advocay of prosecuting our Border Patrol Agents.


10 posted on 01/27/2009 10:50:51 AM PST by DBCJR (What would you expect?)
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To: jwparkerjr

I hear ya! Agreed.


11 posted on 01/27/2009 10:51:25 AM PST by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
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To: AuntB

Unfortunately, too many of our politicans are pro-Mexico and anti-American.

It would not be too difficult to contain the Mexican narco-violence....secure the border....no US entry thru Mexican border....suspension and abrogation of NAFTA (useless trade deal if with narco terrorists)...deportation of all illegal Mexicans....moving all incarcerated Mexicans into solitary confinement

Unfortunately, both parties lack the leadership to protect America. If this crap w Mexico gets out of hand, do not be surprised a third party candidate wins in the US presidency in 2012


12 posted on 01/27/2009 10:52:12 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Memo To George W. Bush: Geo. Washington, Abe Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt all were Protectionists....)
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To: DBCJR

America has always been the Mexican safety valve to keep the pressure cooker from exploding. It isn’t politically correct to say so but it sure seems like revolution and unrest are the natural state of most latin American nations.


13 posted on 01/27/2009 10:53:29 AM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: AuntB

Who wants the job of trying to convince me that only the pure and willing to work are the ones coming North across our border?

The days of the Bracero” are long gone.


14 posted on 01/27/2009 10:55:56 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: AuntB
"Mexico on Edge of Chaos"

A reference to having a common border with the US?

15 posted on 01/27/2009 10:55:57 AM PST by Paladin2 (No, pundits strongly believe that the proper solution is more dilution.)
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To: cripplecreek

That’s the way it “appears”, to be politically correct.


16 posted on 01/27/2009 10:56:12 AM PST by DBCJR (What would you expect?)
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To: cripplecreek

Not only that, from a couple friends I know living in AZ and TX very close to the border, most of the news is being heavily filtered onto the national scene with regards to the violence and drugs associated with ‘the unrest’ in Mexico. Cross border hits (murder on US soil, kidnappings, beatings, cuttings) are common place now not to mention local LEO’s are doing very little to stop incoming product. We here do not even get 1/100th of the news of what’s happening now.


17 posted on 01/27/2009 11:00:53 AM PST by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior

“Unfortunately, both parties lack the leadership to protect America. If this crap w Mexico gets out of hand, do not be surprised a third party candidate wins in the US presidency in 2012”

That sure wouldn’t break my heart....hell of a price we’ve had to pay for it, eh?


18 posted on 01/27/2009 11:04:14 AM PST by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
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To: AuntB
Mexico's governments have always been one cartel or another..
Its just a matter of which cartel.. is in power..
If being in "power" is a relevent word..

Mexico has NEVER had what you call a government..

Democracy is always MOB RULE(by mobsters)... in the best of circumstances..

Looks America is no longer a Republic.. but a democracy..

19 posted on 01/27/2009 11:05:15 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: cripplecreek
Wonder what resident Zero thinks will happen when it all falls apart in Mexico and we face a rush of 30 or 40 million more illegals in a matter of weeks or months.

Amnesty and 30 or 40 million permanent (d) voters.

20 posted on 01/27/2009 11:06:23 AM PST by Arrowhead1952 (Dissent is patriotic - Hussein is not and will never be my president.)
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To: RSmithOpt

“Not only that, from a couple friends I know living in AZ and TX very close to the border, most of the news is being heavily filtered onto the national scene with regards to the violence and drugs associated with ‘the unrest’ in Mexico. Cross border hits (murder on US soil, kidnappings, beatings, cuttings) are common place now not to mention local LEO’s are doing very little to stop incoming product. We here do not even get 1/100th of the news of what’s happening now.”

You’re right about that. If not for our retired border agents and their great reports, we wouldn’t see much.

Death and destruction continue to intensify
m3reportNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FORMER BORDER PATROL OFFICERS ^ | Jan. 26, 2009 | NAFBPO

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2172663/posts


21 posted on 01/27/2009 11:08:22 AM PST by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
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To: AuntB

It Is later Than We Think!!

Wake Up America!!

Be Ever Vigilant!!


22 posted on 01/27/2009 11:11:17 AM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: hosepipe

“Looks America is no longer a Republic.. but a democracy..”

The new prez keeps calling it a ‘democracy’...I don’t think he likes that ‘Republic’ thing....


A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage.” Alexander Tyler


23 posted on 01/27/2009 11:14:21 AM PST by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
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To: AuntB

Invade and annex the Baja Peninsula. Build a wall with the U.S. army stationed along the rest of the border.

Can you imagine if Mexico was still at its pre 1840s territory? What a mess that would have been for N. America!


24 posted on 01/27/2009 11:15:45 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: ClearCase_guy

“And I’ve always thought that a belt of landmines should be included with the wall.”

Bouncing Betties, or Toe-poppers? Or perhaps a good mix thereof?


25 posted on 01/27/2009 11:16:28 AM PST by roaddog727 (BS does not get bridges built - the funk you see is the funk you do)
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To: AuntB

The cops either get the bribe are they get kiled.

failed state


26 posted on 01/27/2009 11:27:28 AM PST by GeronL (Had the flu. Not well yet.)
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To: cripplecreek

he will say whoohoo... more Democrat voters


27 posted on 01/27/2009 11:28:45 AM PST by GeronL (Had the flu. Not well yet.)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior
Unfortunately, both parties lack the leadership to protect America. If this crap w Mexico gets out of hand, do not be surprised a third party candidate wins in the US presidency in 2012

Nope. the American people will just curl up in a tight ball and wait for help, while the world beats the tar out of them. Just like they have been taught from grade school on.

28 posted on 01/27/2009 11:29:42 AM PST by Clock King (Radical Conservatives, arise!)
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To: RSmithOpt

I live a few blocks from the border. If I get on my roof, I can see the fence. We could get a potato over the border with a decent potato gun. That being said, They are doing a lot of law enforcement in our sector. On one highway, the border patrol outnumber the regular travelers. That is no exaggeration.

I think what most people don’t realize about sealing off the border is that there is a great deal of desert, mountain land to secure. Even in the places that have fences (our city), the mexicans go under it, over it or through it. We caught a couple of them coming through a double-fenced concrete-reinforced section within a couple of miles of the house.

It is my honest opinion that we need to militarize the border. National Guard should be sitting on the border fence. THAT being said, most of the border here in Arizona is just desert scrub brush. You would literally have to post a soldier every 50 feet, and still some might get through.

This was just to let you know that border patrol is doing something.


29 posted on 01/27/2009 11:57:02 AM PST by refreshed
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To: AuntB

Second that, I live right on the border, am always locked and loaded. I think our government is scared to let Americans know the truth about how bad it really is in Mexico for fear of causing mass panic here. Believe me, the violence is heading further N every day. Think Chicago is bad, wait till what’s happening down S hits there.


30 posted on 01/27/2009 11:58:26 AM PST by exbrit
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To: cripplecreek

Not to worry, you’ve got AZ Napolitano to take care of the borders. Don’t forget, she recently said the N. border was a first priority. Guess she’ll sleep through the war down south.


31 posted on 01/27/2009 12:00:52 PM PST by exbrit
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To: AuntB

Only a 9-11 type incident will move politicians to build a wall.


32 posted on 01/27/2009 12:06:21 PM PST by PGR88
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To: americanophile
I am a conservative Repub (not many of us left) and I have been living in Mexico full time for 1.5 years. I bought a vacation home in Baja and started coming down 4 years ago. Lots of Americans living in Baja. We love the beautiful ocean and temp, and the slower pace. We moved here before the escalation in violence and the economy downslide. The violence has been isolated to TJ and the cartels. Most of us feel that if we don't get involved in drugs we should be OK. If the violence escalates against Americans there will be a full exodus. We Americans support the economy and Baja would collapse if we left. I have talked to educated Mexicans and they don't seem to think the Govt will collapse. They adapt to the slower economy and have always had problems with the political parties. Everything is run out of Mexico City. Very centralized and the 3 major parties fight for control of Mexico City. The Baja politicians are fighting the cartels the best they can. It is very hard to clean up the police force, since the Cartels pay more and get them their paychecks on time. The recent Washington DC money that will start this year could help collapse the cartels. Remember it took Columbia 20 years to get rid of the cartels and were only successful when the US got involved. The demand for drugs is heavy in the US. The US is not immune from it's own drug wars. I remember reading that last summer, 38 killings in Detroit in one weekend. It is easy to point fingers about Mexico corruption. Corruption is open here. In the USA it is called pork barrel and taxation. Taxes are low here and govt does not try to over regulate with stupid laws, like smoking in public places, etc. Unfortunately, we can't own guns to protect ourselves. I think the USA will collapse under socialism before Mexico. These people have seen it all before and will survive. Can you imagine what a major black out in LA would do? Or if the USA went without TV for a week. Many complex issues, but I love the people. They have a good attitude about life. I came here for the weather but have stayed for the Christian mission work that is needed here.
33 posted on 01/27/2009 12:26:57 PM PST by cromero (Lead, Follow or Get out of the Way)
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To: PGR88

“Only a 9-11 type incident will move politicians to build a wall.”

We’ve already had a “9-11 type incident”...it was on 9-11-2001...and the a$$monkeys in the federal government STILL didn’t build the wall!


34 posted on 01/27/2009 12:27:44 PM PST by Towed_Jumper (Stephen Hopkins: Founding Father who had Cerebral Palsy.."My hand trembles, my heart does not.")
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To: refreshed
Well, things may slowly be improving, but, lot's more can be done. I tip my hat to the agents working the tough beat down there.

My specific area of concern is the border along the Tohono O'Odom Reservation. That's a big hole that hasn't been plugged.....almost planned that way.

By the way, it is not difficult to build a double fenced section of wall/fence with automated motion sensors, cameras, listening / vibration sensors.

US ANG units with legs can rotate in and out to fly / police a hot spot quickly.

If illegal traffic warrants, add motion triggered twin 25 mm chain guns that are track locked in their field of fire. Computers using IR / FLIR can identify humans caught in no man's land. Simple actually, but initial outlays are high, but construction jobs are now needed. As a last resort strips between those gun towers can be mined too. (Would hate to see that though) The long term effects would pay itself and the maintenance.

Go overseas to other countries and look at their borders. For that matter Mexico has a fence pretty much along its entire southern border.

This is all political, plain and simple cause the ONAS doesn't want it that way.

BTW, I'm talking a 10 yr build.

It's much cheaper to enforce our laws and imprison American employers that employee illegals and stick the upkeep bill to the taxpayer....now that's the truth and we all know it.

TB, whooping cough, Chargis, hepatitis, etc. are costing us a lot now not to mention 74 bankrupted hospitals mandating into bankruptcy by their own government. Those were lost skilled jobs too.

With respect to US border security, I know what freshly painted bull manure smells like that is peddled by the snake oil salesmen called politicians.

35 posted on 01/27/2009 12:46:13 PM PST by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: refreshed
Between August 3, 1942 and August 14, 1943, the US built 2 pipelines that spanned approximately 1254 miles long; a ditch 4 feet deep and 3 feet in width. The 20 in and 24 inch pipes laid side beside.

So please do not tell me that it's difficult to build 1700 miles of wall and border fencing. It all could have been done starting in 2002 with an executive order ushered in with blessing from Congress.

It would have made a great public works project for the recession that immediately followed 9/11. Unfortunately, the CFR, TC, ONAS, and the NWO told W not to do it. The gov could have looked the other way using illegal labor sub-conned to have built it. The gov looks the other way now, what's the difference? (Sorry, I apologize, not slamming you personally in the least...just the double-forked tongues that assume everyone is dumb and won't do anything about it.)

36 posted on 01/27/2009 1:01:35 PM PST by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: RSmithOpt

I certainly take no offense. You didn’t come across as slamming me personally. My point was not that it was impossible to secure the border, but that the agents who are working now are doing their best with some exceptions, of course. The government has failed us. Interesting fact about the pipeline too. I didn’t know that.

Building the fence needs to be done. We certainly should have started earlier. Unfortunately in today’s political climate, it is not going to get done, it appears.

I would like to say though that I have utmost respect for those who are serving as border patrol. My local police, on the other hand...

Thanks for your reply,

refreshed


37 posted on 01/27/2009 1:20:26 PM PST by refreshed
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To: refreshed

Bump!! I know many in law enforcement do do an exceptional job as well as our agents. When you see a known good border agent, tell him thanks for me, please.


38 posted on 01/27/2009 1:27:01 PM PST by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: jwparkerjr; AuntB
“We have become a nation that simply can't anticipate and handle its problems.”

It's all in the plan.

Next big terrorist attack will implement http://www.spp.gov/ and this: http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/legal/statutes/ieepa.pdf

39 posted on 01/27/2009 1:59:58 PM PST by wolfcreek (There is no 2 party system only arrogant Pols and their handlers)
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To: americanophile
I can't think of any time since then when it hasn't been on the 'Edge of Chaos.'

Big difference in Muzzle loaders and full auto modern weapons.

40 posted on 01/27/2009 2:02:31 PM PST by itsahoot (We will have world government. Whether by conquest or consent. Looks like that question is answered)
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To: cripplecreek

James David Manning warned that with Obama in the presidency we will soon see people trying to cross INTO Mexico from the USA! There will be a huge jam at the Rio Grande with people trying to cross in both directions.


41 posted on 01/27/2009 2:32:57 PM PST by RipSawyer (Great Grandpa was a Confederate soldier from the cradle of secession.)
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To: hosepipe

Looks America is no longer a Republic.. but a democracy..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The worst part is that the majority of the people are dummies who think it is SUPPOSED to be a democracy and that a democracy is the greatest form of government in the world, provided of course that it is a socialist democracy.


42 posted on 01/27/2009 2:37:40 PM PST by RipSawyer (Great Grandpa was a Confederate soldier from the cradle of secession.)
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To: AuntB
Running Democracys are so easy a caveman can do it..
Running a Rrepublic is so hard a caveman cannot do it..

Politically, We may be screwed..

43 posted on 01/27/2009 2:49:26 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: cromero

Good luck. I would never live there.


44 posted on 01/28/2009 10:49:41 AM PST by americanophile
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