Maybe you don't consider this “Real Science” after all, it doesn't include Noah herding dinosaurs.
: FEMS Microbiol Rev. 2000 Jan;24(1):21-44. Links
Secretion and assembly of regular surface structures in Gram-negative bacteria.Fernández LA, Berenguer J.
Departamento de Biotecnología Microbiana, Centro Nacional de Biotecnología, C.S.I.C. Campus Cantoblanco, 28049, Madrid, Spain.
Bacteria synthesize large-sized surface structures through the ordered polymerization of protein subunits. This results in planar or tubular regular structures that have evolved to accomplish specific functions related to the particular environment in which these bacteria are found. Tubular assemblies known as flagella are the most complex structures known in bacteria and consist of a helical rigid filament, a torsion adapter or hook and a proton-fueled rotator known as the basal body. Pili or fimbriae are less complicated helical filaments, which consist of a major subunit and 3-5 minor subunits or pilins, whose main function is the attachment to specific surfaces. Planar structures known as S-layers are the simplest of these regular assemblies and are generally made up of a single subunit packed as a bidimensional crystal around the whole cell surface. Most of the components of these structures have to be secreted through the inner membrane (IM), the periplasm and the outer membrane (OM) before reaching their final destination. The so called general secretory pathway (GSP), or type II secretion system, appears to be implicated in this process to varying degrees, depending on the structure considered. A few S-layers and pili require GSP components but also need specific terminal branches, such as the well known chaperone-usher pathway. On the other hand, only two of the nearly 40 proteins involved in flagellar assembly are dependent on the GSP, while the external components are secreted through a specific pathway similar to the type III systems identified in some pathogens. Moreover, secretion of subunits of S-layers using dedicated type I machinery, without the involvement of any GSP component, has also been observed.
PMID: 10640597 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Why don’t you instead show me how htose could arise via purely antural means without any intellgient intervention- I’ve already destryoed Miller’s supposed ‘natural evolution’ of blood clotting by exposing hte fact that he had to itnelligently design, manipulate and direct the process of lower blood clotting systems to arrived at the IC system of higher complexity blood clotting- ANYONE can take the design of an IC system and reduce it’s REDUCIBLE components- but callign that a refutation is well, quite assinine
[[Bacteria synthesize large-sized surface structures through the ordered polymerization of protein subunits.]]
Swell- ‘large sized surface structures’ that are specifically molded and ready for assembly in a complex motor system? No? Didn’t htink so- Tell me again how the flagellum argument has been refuted time and time again? I love that story!
[[This results in planar or tubular regular structures that have evolved to accomplish specific functions related to the particular environment in which these bacteria are found.]]
And Mr. Fernández LA, Berenguer J. knows they’ve evolved how? How is it that he, and he alone, when noone else around, knows the complex structures of the motor evovled?
you know- Miller tried to argue that a one wheeled bike ‘could function’ and htus a ‘bike is not reducible’, but his argument was crap- just like your pubmed argument is crap- because it IGNORES the FACT that the one wheeled bike relies on more IC parts in order to function- like hte chain, the links in the chain, the connecting pins in the link assemblies,- the seat stem, the seat itself, the seat assembly, the tube which hte wheel is connected to, the nuts, bolts, spokes etc- Let’s for instance remove just one link assembly- remove just one pin that holds the chain together and see how well the unicycle works?
Ahhh... errrrmmm.... But.....
[[Pili or fimbriae are less complicated helical filaments, which consist of a major subunit and 3-5 minor subunits or pilins, whose main function is the attachment to specific surfaces.]]
Ok- let’s remove one of hte subunits and see how well it works-
No, the good Mr Fernández LA, Berenguer J is cheating and deceiving by workign from an ALREADY ESTABLISHED working order of IC and reducing JUST the reducible parts, and making hte claim that therefore, the whole system is somehow unintelligently non IC- The good Mr Fernández LA, Berenguer J is setting up a scenario whereby all the necessary workign orders are inplace, (as well as extrapolating to, and appealing to, processes for which he hasn’t the foggiest idea occured i nthe past) and he is ensuring that the intelligently designed set of parameters ar4e inplace before he even begins to attempt to dissassemble and ‘reconstruct’ just the REDUCIBLE elements of hte whole IC system
Ps I noticed a distinct lack of presence by you in the threads on William’s article on the irreducibility of life’s structures- perhaps you’d liek to mosey on over there and itnroduce this silly pubmed article, and miller’s ‘explainations’ of blood clotting supposedly not being reducible i nthose htreads? I must warn you htough, that tryign to point out that a lower complexity exists does NOT refute the irreducibility of a higher complexity system- ESPECIALLY when you NEED to intelligently design, construct, manipulate, direct, protect and then finally assemble all the intelligently designed components durign hte process of ‘natural evolution’ and later durign the cosntruction phase.
An arguemnt that relies on soemthign that can only be assumed ot have happened, and hten worse, relies on that subsystem hten dissappearing by beign coopted into higher systems at a later date is like watchign a magic show- first you don’t see it, now you don’t see it once again- Swell- fine argument. Yuo might as well state that nature was capable of miracles, and concealed it’s miraculous powers fro mthe natural observer ‘sometime in the past’.
Taking a far less complex sub-part, which has only a 1/4 of the genes of the flagellum, and claiming it has function in far less complex species, in no way refutes the idea that higher complexity exists in an IC state, and people like Miller should be ashamed of themselves for even proposing that this is the case, yet apparenetly it is impossible for naturalists to experience shame.