Posted on 02/12/2009 8:16:42 AM PST by thackney
Last week, as a friend of mine and I were discussing the energy business, an acquaintance of ours came into the room. When told the topic of discussion, she immediately denounced Exxon Mobil. She'd just heard on the radio that the energy giant had had a record $45.2 billion profit in 2008. She was clearly hoping that we would join in her disgust.
I asked, "So are you suggesting that Exxon should not make money?" I went on, "Would you prefer that Exxon be like AIG, or Citigroup, or one of the big Wall Street outfits that's now asking for a government bailout?" That quieted her down. But I couldn't help myself. I asked, "Did you know that 52 percent of Exxon is owned by mutual funds, index funds, and pension funds?" No. Nor did she know that about 2 million individuals own Exxon stock or that company insiders hold less than 1 percent of the company.
The facts above are not meant to belittle my acquaintance. Rather, it's to illustrate an all-too-common problem in America: Voters have been conditioned to hate the energy business in general and Big Oil in particular. Americans love their gasoline, they love their cars, but they hate the oil companies....
According to the company's income statement, the amount of taxes it paid in 2008 was 2.5 times as much as its net profit. The $45.2 billion profit figure makes a snappy headline, but the $116.2 billion in taxes that it paid is relegated to a footnote—if that. Exxon's tax bill breaks down like this: income taxes, $36.5 billion; sales-based taxes, $34.5 billion; "all other" taxes, $45.2 billion. ...
(Excerpt) Read more at usnews.com ...
They collect it up-front and have to pay it ‘back’ to the gov’t.
So, Exxon and every other business owner is a tax collector for the gov’t.
Failing to pay these sales taxes get many companies in trouble, either through honest mistake or dishonesty.
Difficult to say if there is a better method to send the sales tax directly to the gov’t. It would get rid of just one more burden on business.
Not if they have to collect the tax at the pump, then pay the various confiscators. Employers pay 1/2 of employee FICA and therefore it's a liability (balance sheet) and expense (income statement).
Management's responsibility is to shareholders (which thanks to congress's social engineering, taxpayers are now in that class for financial institutions and auto manufacturers). Corporations have to pay taxes in all of their local jurisdictions (say the USA or France). They can keep the profits local or move it somewhere else to the benefit of that locality.
If they repatriate the profits to the US, they have to give the US government agencies roughly 40% of the profits that were already taxed. Dividends come out of profits. That leaves far less dividends to pay to shareholders, or leaves less shareholder equity to reinvest.
Are they upholding their fiduciary responsibility to shareholders if they consciously dispose of 40% of their profits for no good reason - other then, as Biden put it, "being patriotic"?
I have an idea (it's not original) - cut the corporate taxes on profits made overseas to nothing. That way, the capital comes bact to the US and can be used productively here. Part of something is better then all of nothing.
In the United States at least, corporate charters are instruments of collectivization, granted by the power of the laws of the Republic.
When the exercise of those charters becomes antagonistic towards the purpose of American governance - which is “To Secure These Rights”,(these rights being endowed upon INDIVIDUALS - not upon collectives) then the American thing to do is to REVOKE THE CORPORATE CHARTER.
What the Republic giveth, the Republic can taketh away.
>>REVOKE THE CORPORATE CHARTER
Should be:
REVOKE THE CORPORATE CHARTER of those who abuse it.
IMHO, you've got it backwards. Business are notional individuals and individuals are not here to serve government - it's the other way around. I profoundly disagree with you on this issue. Government is not the boss, and America better wake up right now to this fact or there will be no more America are we know it.
Do you believe the federal government has the right to disolve the equity of the holdings in your 401k/IRA Mutual funds? That is the the biggest source of shareholders in these companies.
I'm not defending the atrocious corporate governance issues we face today, but every single time government steps in to "fix" a problem, their "fix" is always 10 times worse then the problem. The current economic meltdown is a perfect example. Government inflicted. Social insecurity, Medicare/Medicaid - all ponzi schemes.
Please! Someone save me from government always trying to help me!!!
Thackney has been pinged to that post before and won't comment. I have recently rewritten the piece, adding a brief treatise on mercantilism, which is what all of this effectively is. I'll be posting it on my web site.
Regarding the corporatist economics of Mussolini's fascist regime..."In actual fact, it is the State, i.e. the taxpayer, who has become responsible to private enterprise. In Fascist Italy the State pays for the blunders of private enterprise. As long as business was good, profit remained to private initiative. When the depression came, the Government added the loss to the tax-payer's burden. Profit is private and individual. Loss is public and social."--Under the Axe of Fascism, by Gaetano Salvemini, p. 416 (1936).Salvemini goes on to discuss the bailouts, which were targeted to large corporations but not small businesses. All of this sounds familiar to everyone, I'm sure..."In December 1932 a Fascist financial expert, Signor Mazuchelli, estimated that more than 8.5 billion lire had been paid out by the Government from 1923 to 1932 in order to help depressed industries (Rivista Bancaria, December 15th, 1932, p.1,007). From December 1932 to 1935 the outlay must have doubled."--Under the Axe of Fascism, by Gaetano Salvemini (1936).The plays are being taken from various playbooks, but that doesn't make them equal; however, the common thread is authoritarianism/centralization of power.
Render unto Caesar what is his.
They can do whatever they want with it. I plan on working until I die anyways, and my appetites are small and disciplined.
But nice try, though - Extortion is as extortion does.
Tyranny of the appetite.
To: Hostage; SierraWasp; snopercod; Dog Gone; sasquatch
It doesn’t look like that was sent to me.
You are entertaining at least.
I don't see how this is germane to the discussion of Exxon's taxes. If you want to equate a corporation to communism, argue away. I think it's a strawman.
Your original post was railing against companies not paying taxes on overseas profits. If they were breaking the law, the IRS would be all over them. If congress wants to tax the hell out of companies, they'll pack up and go elsewhere like Halliburton did. The gov can boycott these evil profit-seeking entities, but that will have a further deleterious effect on treasury income.
My simple point was - and I'll leave it at that - government is the problem. Government keeps trying to pick winners and losers, engineer society, and they've created a morass of laws and red tape that no human being can comprehend (except maybe Timmy Guietner).
If government would make taxes fair and simple, all responsible people and companies would be more prosperous and happy to comply. This tax system if FUBAR and you get what you design.
>>You are entertaining at least.
My God is not a bunch of 1’s and 0’s in cyberspace.
But you go ahead and worship your 401k/IRA if you want to.
Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Baal
—The Who?
OMG! I thought I saw some really stupid crap on the UFO threads, but Low Man, you take the cake. This is probably the single most stupid comment in the entire history of Free Republic, no, more like the history of the internet, and Lord knows there's some seriously stupid stuff out there.
It is important to understand the mechanics of enviro-racketeering. Just as The Ruckus Society protests of globalism are funded by ultra-globalist Ted Turner (who also launders his money through the Tides Foundation), so too do supporters of American mercantilism fail to recognize the major stockholders of petrochemical production laundering their influence buying through the likes of the NRDC. Environmental control of access to resources has become a "big business" of its own. It is almost impossible to explain their power and cash flow by mere ideology or dispensation.
If you really want to understand the underlying Constitutional mechanics, I have two articles for you:
Kelo and the 14th Amendment: Exploring a Constitutional Koan and Skinning Cats Legal Means to Disarm the Second Amendment. Together, with the piece linked above, you'll have a solid grip on how the great game really works. It will explain a great deal that probably heretofore seemed illogical.
OMG! I thought I saw some really stupid crap on the UFO threads, but Low Man, you take the cake. This is probably the single most stupid comment in the entire history of Free Republic, no, more like the history of the internet, and Lord knows there's some seriously stupid stuff out there.
Yeah, but they all start with "Co"! Don't you GET it?
Jim Robinson's initials are "JR", so that means he'll probably be shot in the last season of his hit TV show!
Weird, man...
In actual fact, it is the State, i.e. the taxpayer, who has become responsible to private enterprise. In Fascist Italy the State pays for the blunders of private enterprise. As long as business was good, profit remained to private initiative. When the depression came, the Government added the loss to the tax-payer's burden. Profit is private and individual. Loss is public and social."--Under the Axe of Fascism, by Gaetano Salvemini, p. 416 (1936)."In December 1932 a Fascist financial expert, Signor Mazuchelli, estimated that more than 8.5 billion lire had been paid out by the Government from 1923 to 1932 in order to help depressed industries (Rivista Bancaria, December 15th, 1932, p.1,007). From December 1932 to 1935 the outlay must have doubled."--Under the Axe of Fascism, by Gaetano Salvemini (1936).
"In actual fact, it is the State, i.e. the taxpayer, who has become responsible to private enterprise. In Fascist Italy the State pays for the blunders of private enterprise. As long as business was good, profit remained to private initiative. When the depression came, the Government added the loss to the tax-payer's burden. Profit is private and individual. Loss is public and social."--Under the Axe of Fascism, by Gaetano Salvemini, p. 416 (1936).
"In December 1932 a Fascist financial expert, Signor Mazuchelli, estimated that more than 8.5 billion lire had been paid out by the Government from 1923 to 1932 in order to help depressed industries (Rivista Bancaria, December 15th, 1932, p.1,007). From December 1932 to 1935 the outlay must have doubled."We'll wait.--Under the Axe of Fascism, by Gaetano Salvemini (1936).
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