Posted on 02/15/2009 1:00:09 PM PST by nickcarraway
An official with a leading American Jewish organization told the The Jerusalem Post on Monday that a deterioration in Israel-Turkey relations might prompt his group and others to reconsider Armenian efforts to win recognition of the century-old Turkish massacres as genocide.
A bill that would ensure such recognition by the US, which was backed by Rep. Adam Schiff - a Jewish Democrat who represents a heavily Armenian area of Los Angeles - failed to make it to a Congressional vote in 2007. However, it sparked a row in the American Jewish community between those who sided with Turkey in an effort to protect Israel's political interests, and those who argued that Jews were particularly responsible for helping other groups block the public denial of genocide.
"No Jew or Israeli in his right mind will insult Turkey," the official told the Post. "But next time... they might not come to Turkey's aid or equivocate quite so much on the issue."
The Bush administration opposed the bill out of concern for what it would do to US-Turkey relations.
The current blowup between Israel and Turkey comes amid expectations that the Obama administration will name academic and writer Samantha Power, an expert on genocide, to a key National Security Council post dealing with multilateral institutions. Power has been outspoken in labeling the Turkish massacre of Armenians genocide, albeit from outside the government.
One Washington-based Jewish community leader said Jewish organizations were unlikely to reorient their views and begin backing legislation to recognize the Armenian genocide, arguing that this would only make a delicate situation far worse.
"If organizations aren't backing Armenian genocide resolutions because of the Turkish-Israeli relationship and their concern about the Turkish Jewish community, I don't think they would change now," he said. "Those same concerns remain, and those same pressures remain."
Anti-Defamation League head Abraham Foxman - whose opposition to the Armenian genocide legislation in 2007 provoked widespread criticism - told the Post that as long as Israel maintained its diplomatic ties with Turkey, he saw no immediate reason to change his position on any future genocide resolutions.
"This is not a punishment or a reward issue - we don't change our position on what's right or wrong based on what people say," Foxman said. "The interests between Israel and Turkey continue."
Foxman also noted that he knew of Jewish friends who had cancelled trips to Turkey over Erdogan's comments, but described the Erdogan flap as a disagreement between "friends."
"There have been some very inappropriate harsh statements by the leadership, especially by the prime minister, which we think are inappropriate," he said, "but they have not changed the basic relationship [with Israel]."
“very inappropriate harsh statements by the leadership, especially by the prime minister, which we think are inappropriate,”
From the Department of Redundancy Department?
The refusal of groups like the Anti-Defamation League to recognize the Turkish genocide of Armenians reveals their essential hypocrisy and bad faith.
Well, that's a relief.
Presumably, genocide is wrong, whether it's carried out against Armenians or Turks or Hutus or Tutsis or....
Man, we need some cooler heads to prevail before some wing-nut drives Turkey away from Israel altogether.
I noted an attempt to alienate Turkey about 14 months ago. And now there seems to be a new attempt on another front.
Turkey is one of if not the largest trading partner with Israel. What benefit is there going to be from driving these two nations apart, other than to isolate Israel further?
Something doesn’t pass the smell test here.
Not being a politician, I'd tell the Turks the truth, they committed genocide. But essentially driving them apart is the issue. Essentially Israel takes America's position, despite the fact that they weren't a country, much less a soon to be enemy at the time.
I have no problem requiring all the successor states to that Empire to address the issue ~ that starts with Greece, ........ and goes on through a whole list of nations, and ends up with the Brits and French who held League of Nations trusteeships throughout the region.
So, guys, time to belly up to the bar and let folks know about your own positions, and to accept your guilt!
I believe the Armenians may have a beef with Turkey, and I encourage them to raise the issue in the old country. I don’t appreciate them moving to America, and then trying to get America to take up their cause.
If it was important for them to raise the issue, then they should have raised the issue from the old country.
The only reason we took up the Jews cause, is because of our involvement in WWII, and our Judeo Christian relationship with the Jews.
I live in a town that has been flooded with Armenians. They want our town to declare a public holiday and close all buildings in remembrance of the Armenian Genocide. They have also asked to have the Armenian flag fly on city flagpoles on that day.
I don’t approve of genocide. I’m not making excuses for Turkey. If Turkey deserves it, hey, then they deserve it.
I don’t think we should bring every old world problem to the United States, then adopt them as if they were our own problems. Where do you draw the line with remembrances, flags on our government poles and things like that?
While I sympathize with the Armenians on the issue, I am still somewhat dumbfounded by the requests that we essentially observe the day as if it were U.S. Citizens who suffered the loss. Observe it in Armenia as it should be observed, and let the U.S. observe it’s own special events.
We could also declare a day of remembered for the Chinese killed by their own government, the Cambodians killed by their own government, the Russians killed by their own government, the Iraqis killed by their own government... I’m sure there are countless things that could be observed here by citizens from all across the planet. I just don’t as a general rule think those issues should be front and center here, other than for us to learn about them in an educational setting.
The killings took place during WWI. The part of Europe that belonged to the Ottoman Empire at that time was roughly the same as now belongs to Turkey (the border may have been slightly different). Why would Greece, Bulgaria, or the other countries which had formerly been under Turkish rule have an obligation to apologize for something the Turks did? Some of them had been victims of Ottoman massacres in earlier times.
Regarding the Bulgarians, other than the Turks and Bulgarians who can really tell the difference ~ and as far as "being under" all the parties to the Islamic Caliphate share in the guilt.
Do not fight with Turkey over this.
I think all the islands that now belong to Greece were no longer under Turkish rule by 1914 (Crete went to Greece in 1913, I think). The Dodecanese in the SE Aegean were under Italy until 1947. The area that is now the NE portion of mainland Greece (the north coast of the Aegean) was under Bulgaria after 1912 and then went to Greece after WWI.
Even Armenia is a successor state, and Israel is a successor state.
The United States did not become a successor state to the Ottoman Empire/Islamic Caliphate because, lo and behold, WE did not accept a mandate offered to us by the Brits through the agency of the League of Nations.
Going after today's Turkish government for deeds done by the Ottoman Empire makes as much sense as going after the modern United States for deeds done by the United Kingdom in the French and Indian War.
Unfortunately there are racists who want to tag every "Turk" with the sins commited by any "Turk", or even by Arabs, Persians, Circassians, Greeks or Serbo-Croats who were members of the government or the military maintained by the Ottoman Empire.
You can go along with that if you want, but it would be stupid to do so.
Gee, I guess my grandparents lost their mom and dad in a non genocide and it wasn't very important because my parentless grandparents didn't have an old country left from which to raise the issue! So let's just forget about, eh? Don't want hurt Turkey's feelings (/s)
Number one, I did not call it a non-genocide. Number two, there are still Armenians in the region. Number three, I am not without sorrow for anyone who lost their life, or their relatives. Number four, if you can have sorrow for them from the U.S. and take action, I fail to understand why folks can’t do it from the region in which these actions took place. Number five, why does it have to take place from the United States?
I guess that's just too much to ask for, eh?
Ask for anything you like. I never said you couldn’t. You need to stick to the comments I have made.
I said I didn’t want a day of recognition here, I didn’t want our government closed here, and didn’t want foreign flags to fly here.
I also get sick and tired of people trying to force our government to make statements that can cause problems during a war effort.
The Turkish Armenian action at issue here took place around 90 years ago. So here we are with Turkey being an ally of ours and now is the time when some folks want this to come to a head.
Well, I disagree for the time being.
So for the sake of not making anybody made, pretend there was no genocide. I get it now. And Hitler did nothing to the Jews...
Look, you’re displaying the same attitude I see in my own town. The United States is supposed to take on the issue as if it were American Citizens who died during the Armenian Genocide. We are talking about two foreign entities on the other side of the planet, concerning actions that took place 90 years ago, whose dealings I have offered no judgment about. I haven’t studied the issue. It isn’t a top priority for me. As a general rule, I do not countenance indiscriminate killings of civilians.
In earlier posts I explained why the United States became such a strong supporter of Israel with regard to the Holocaust. If you care to understand my thoughts on it, read my earlier posts here.
You seem to be demanding the U.S. take a side on this issue right now. The U.S. is not pretending there was no genocide. It’s not pretending there was a genocide. It simply isn’t making a public statement on that issue right now.
It probably has made some determination in the past, but it is not open to reopening the issue right now.
We have fellow citizens on the ground in Iraq right now. Supplies are moving across Turkey during the war there. So no, I’m not going to sell out our men on the ground, to back one side right this minute on an issue that took place ninety years ago.
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