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The genetic puppeteer (ever wonder why genetic twins look progressively different over time?)
Creation Magazine ^ | David White

Posted on 02/18/2009 8:49:26 PM PST by GodGunsGuts

The genetic puppeteer

by David White

Back in 2005 a group of researchers published a landmark study on a question that has long puzzled geneticists: why aren’t identical twins … identical? Considering that they have the same DNA sequence in each of their cells, it seems a bit strange that they often possess a number of physical differences, such as different fingerprints, and different susceptibilities to disease. This raises the question: if two people can have identical DNA sequences and yet be so different, is there more to our genetic blueprint than just DNA?...

(Excerpt) Read more at creationontheweb.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: creation; epigenetics; evolution; genetics; intelligentdesign; twins
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1 posted on 02/18/2009 8:49:27 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Environment?

Heredity isn’t everything.


2 posted on 02/18/2009 8:52:13 PM PST by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini.)
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To: editor-surveyor; metmom; AndrewC; DaveLoneRanger; count-your-change; tpanther; GourmetDan

Don’t have my ping list handy. Any of you guys happen to have a ping list handy?

All the best—GGG


3 posted on 02/18/2009 8:53:01 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: lightman

Environment definitely has something to do with it. As it turns out, they are discovering codes upon codes upon codes above the genetic code.


4 posted on 02/18/2009 8:54:18 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts; syriacus

I work in a cancer research lab and we do a lot of epigenetics work! Thanks for posting this it is a good, informative read!

Ping


5 posted on 02/18/2009 8:54:51 PM PST by Valkyrie927 ("This is the way the world ends; not with a bang but a whimper." -TS Elliot)
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To: GodGunsGuts; lightman

Not exactly the same thing, but definitely related:

http://www.embeddedexcellence.com/vid/Ghost.avi


6 posted on 02/18/2009 8:56:03 PM PST by krb (Obama is a miserable failure.)
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To: Valkyrie927

ping to #6


7 posted on 02/18/2009 8:56:31 PM PST by krb (Obama is a miserable failure.)
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To: Valkyrie927

Glad to be of service!—GGG


8 posted on 02/18/2009 8:57:26 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

As you get older, who you are gets written on your face.


9 posted on 02/18/2009 8:58:22 PM PST by GOPJ (The closer global warming is exposed as hoax, the more hysterical it's proponents become...)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Epigenetics. Every cell in your body has the same DNA blueprint, but there are vast differences between a neuron and a cardiac muscle cell and a white blood cell etc. The differences are explained in part by which of the genes in the DNA blueprint are read and expressed in these different cell types. Chemical modifications of DNA and of the proteins that interact with DNA are major determinants of which genes are read and expressed, and these chemical modifications can be altered/affected by environmental exposures.
10 posted on 02/18/2009 8:59:47 PM PST by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: lightman

>>Environment?

Heredity isn’t everything.<<

It apparently starts in the pre-birth environment - the finger prints are apparently extremely similar but slightly different. Apparently difference in nutrition, womb position and blood pressure have slight effects on fingertip growth rate and thus cause tiny fingerprint differences.

Later in life environmental differences are even bigger - and things like lines in the face and body weight can diverge even more.

Fascinating topic though.


11 posted on 02/18/2009 9:02:15 PM PST by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
(ever wonder why genetic twins look progressively different over time?)

Because creationism predicted they would.

12 posted on 02/18/2009 9:04:05 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Havoc has been back since September. Or was it April?)
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To: GOPJ

Very true. And, as it turns out, part of what is written on your face is controlled by the epigenetic code.


13 posted on 02/18/2009 9:06:28 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Interesting Times

Ping to another layer of complexity.


14 posted on 02/18/2009 9:10:05 PM PST by zot
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To: GodGunsGuts

Lots of reasons... environmental stresses (weather, sun exposure, work activity), physiological stresses (sickness, exposure to toxins, epigenetics, etc.


15 posted on 02/18/2009 9:12:30 PM PST by Kirkwood
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To: krb; Valkyrie927; GOPJ; pieceofthepuzzle

If you want to read a few papers that will really blow your mind, give the following a read!

Life’s Irreducible Structure pt. 1

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/6172/

Life’s Irreducible Structure pt. 2

http://creationontheweb.com/images/pdfs/tj/j21_3/j21_3_77-83.pdf

Astonishing DNA Complexity Demolished neo-Darwinism

http://creationontheweb.com/images/pdfs/tj/j21_3/j21_3_111-117.pdf


16 posted on 02/18/2009 9:14:43 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: krb

For some reason your vid isn’t playing. Is there a different link to the same.


17 posted on 02/18/2009 9:17:54 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

bookmark


18 posted on 02/18/2009 9:23:42 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Nope...I think you just need to right-click on it and “Save As...” then watch it off of your hard drive. I guess it doesn’t stream well in your browser.


19 posted on 02/18/2009 9:26:00 PM PST by krb (Obama is a miserable failure.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

What’s your OS and browser?


20 posted on 02/18/2009 9:26:31 PM PST by krb (Obama is a miserable failure.)
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To: krb

Vista and Explorer.


21 posted on 02/18/2009 9:27:36 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Hmmm, don’t know why it won’t stream...but can you download it then play it? (it’s really awesome, BTW)


22 posted on 02/18/2009 9:30:10 PM PST by krb (Obama is a miserable failure.)
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To: krb

It just started playing. Boy did that thing take a long time to load. Thanks for the link!


23 posted on 02/18/2009 9:33:01 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
This raises the question: if two people can have identical DNA sequences and yet be so different

I wouldn't describe identical twins as "so different."

It's lost on me why the author thinks it is news that a variety of factors affect gene expression.

24 posted on 02/18/2009 9:48:18 PM PST by freespirited (Help save humanity. Cure the RINOvirus.)
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To: gondramB
It apparently starts in the pre-birth environment - the finger prints are apparently extremely similar but slightly different. Apparently difference in nutrition, womb position and blood pressure have slight effects on fingertip growth rate and thus cause tiny fingerprint differences.

You might be onto something there. My brother and I shared the same womb. I weighed one pound more at birth and through life I've always been 10+ pounds heavier.

Another thing, while in the womb, we decided to be just adorable... some things never change. :)

25 posted on 02/18/2009 9:55:28 PM PST by Diver Dave
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To: GodGunsGuts

Read the third one. So much misinformation or misunderstanding. Do the author and editors of that “journal” know the definition of references, because it has footnotes AND references in it.


26 posted on 02/18/2009 10:07:22 PM PST by Wacka
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To: GodGunsGuts

Funny thing, with epigenetics, maybe Lamarckianism looks to be vindicated in a very limited, highly qualified way, after all.

And another funny thing, there was a lot of tasty scientific goodness in that article without much fundamentalist preaching! I sure hope the good people at CMI are feeling well.


27 posted on 02/18/2009 10:08:51 PM PST by Mogwai (You say "far right" like that's a bad thing, Arlen!)
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To: freespirited

It’s not just some generic factor. The epigenetic code actually controls the genetic code. And, as it turns out, they are finding additional codes that make the genetic code perhaps the simplest code of them all.


28 posted on 02/18/2009 10:10:33 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Wacka

Fire away. I’m all ears.


29 posted on 02/18/2009 10:13:55 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Mogwai
You are quite right. The Evos who are clamoring for dumping Darwin in favor of a new evolutionary synthesis are most definitely giving Lamarckian evolution a second look. Of course, environmentally directed adaptation is not the only thing they are looking at. But the mere fact that they are dusting off Lamarck would have been considered heresy a few years ago (and still is by many neo-Darwinists, such as Richard Darwkins et al).
30 posted on 02/18/2009 10:22:09 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Most of this stuff in this article has been known for years. The UTRs he mentioned are called introns. They were discovered over 30 years ago. The people who found them won a Nobel in 1993 or 1994. Where I worked then was lucky enough to had booked one of the winners for a lecture that was scheduled the week after he won. The entire genome is not transcribed. A lot of stuff like that from someone without a firm grasp of the field. The author is a botanist that spent a lot of time doing missionary work, not someone with a molecular biology background.

About the DNA replication, I actually developed a method (about 20 years ago) to map which regions had replication origins and in which directions the DNA replicated. Other labs used my method soon after to show that DNA replication occurred in nonspecific regions in human DNA. Again, what is your background or his in molecular biology???


31 posted on 02/18/2009 10:47:17 PM PST by Wacka
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To: GodGunsGuts


Don't forget. I get to wear the watch on Thanksgiving.
32 posted on 02/18/2009 10:50:28 PM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a Simple Manner for a Happy Life ;o)
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To: Wacka
==The UTRs he mentioned are called introns.

Wow, wrong right out of the box. You are obviously an expert. LOL


33 posted on 02/18/2009 10:54:51 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Wacka

PS Could it be that you don’t know the difference between transcription and translation? I think I’ll stick with the botanist/missionary.


34 posted on 02/18/2009 10:58:42 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

The way the author describes UTRs in the article, he makes no distinction between the 5’ and 3’ UTRs and introns. Both were known even before introns. It was known that there had to be regions 5’ (upstream) where the translation machinery (ribosomes and associated proteins) had to bind to start synthesizing proteins. More recently it was found that the 3’ end contains sequence motifs (not necessarily specific bases) to tell the cell to stop transcription . These are likely the 3D structure the mRNA makes and not specifically the sequence. You have this idea that this “ancient” history is somehow new. None of this repudiattes evolution at all.


35 posted on 02/18/2009 11:10:33 PM PST by Wacka
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To: Wacka

Wrong again. Williams’ paper is covering recent and groundbreaking discoveries by project ENCODE. Next time you say you have read something, you might want to consider actually reading it. The “ancient history” (the only part you apparently read) is covered at the beginning of the paper. Williams then goes on to demonstrate how our antiquated notions with respect to the genome have been RADICALLY changed by project ENCODE.


36 posted on 02/18/2009 11:22:05 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Wacka

PS Way to NOT admit your error.


37 posted on 02/18/2009 11:23:20 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

`What is my error snoogums?


38 posted on 02/18/2009 11:26:57 PM PST by Wacka
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To: GodGunsGuts

Introns are also UTRs. They are transcribed, but not translated. UTR in the field means UnTranslated Regions. DNA is transcribed to RNA and then the RNA is translated to protein. He said that.
It seems that you don’t know what transcription and translation are.
Again, what is your biology background snoogums??


39 posted on 02/18/2009 11:28:08 PM PST by Wacka
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To: Wacka

PSS What do you suppose the discovery that the genome is 93%+ functional will do to all those phylogenetic trees that the Darwinists have constructed based on a neutral rate of mutation?


40 posted on 02/18/2009 11:28:35 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Wacka

Oh, I get it. You start using “snoogums” as a defense mechanism when a creaionist points out you don’t know what you’re talking about. LOL


41 posted on 02/18/2009 11:33:19 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Simply explained with creationism.


42 posted on 02/18/2009 11:34:13 PM PST by Darwin Fish (God invented evolution. Man invented religeon.)
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To: Wacka

Spare me your belated understanding. You obviously have no clue what you’re talking about. Goodnight Mr. “Scientist.”


43 posted on 02/18/2009 11:35:26 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Most of the function of the non transcribed regions is due to the macro structure of the DNA. Mutations in the DNA will likely not affect the structural functions until enough are accumulated. If enough do, then the they may cause the cell to not replicate and die off or they may actually allow a new and possibly beneficial function to occur. If this new function is beneficial, then the organism will survive and be able to pass on it’s genes to it’s organism, having evolved a little.


44 posted on 02/18/2009 11:37:53 PM PST by Wacka
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To: Diver Dave

Bump for later reading as a father of identical twins.

They are almost to the age where they are done losing their baby teeth. They lose (and grow) in a mirror image of each other - every single tooth! (Upper right for one, upper left on the other, etc.)

But yes - different in so many ways. The oldest was a natural birth. The second was an emergency “c-section” with the cord wrapped around her neck. Born 10 weeks premature. Neither had any real complications though. Interesting that the second one (with no air/heart beat) is now about 1/2 inch taller and a couple of pounds heavier. Although at birth I think she was a half - ounce bigger than her sister (IIRC: 3 lbs 4 oz and 3 lbs 4.5 oz).


45 posted on 02/18/2009 11:41:46 PM PST by 21twelve
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To: GodGunsGuts

It was known for a long time that the majority of the DNA had some function. What is new is what exactly that is.

I’m believing that it’s pointless to argue with ignorant people who have no intention of believing facts.

It got under your skin last night. Do you have latent homosexual feelings???

Again, ignorance is bliss soongams.


46 posted on 02/18/2009 11:44:25 PM PST by Wacka
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To: 21twelve

Identical twins = nature’s clones.


47 posted on 02/18/2009 11:46:06 PM PST by Wacka
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To: Wacka

Your ignorance becomes more and more apparent with each new reply. Have you still not read the paper? Don’t you realize that they now know that each segment of DNA can have multiple functions, and thus a single mutation can have a profound effect on each and every one of them? Read the article. You are WAY behind the times...and believe me, it shows.


48 posted on 02/18/2009 11:47:30 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Grab a copy of the "Genotype Diet" by Peter D'Adamo. His prior books aim dietary "avoids" and "recommended" foods based on blood type. Blood type mirror the antigenic type of all cells in the body. It turns out that his approach was good, but has been greatly improved. The missing link is "epigenetics". The blood type is fixed by genetics, but many other characteristics are sensitive to the developing environment between fertilization and birth. Hormone and nutritional impacts from the mother's body are reflected in the development of the baby. The reason fingerprints are unique is that they are a running "log" of impacts caused by hormones and nutritional input. The ratio of upper leg to lower leg, leg to torso, relative finger lengths (ring finger vs index finger), left/right symmetry, jaw shape and tooth characteristics. D'Adamo roughly categorizes 6 general "genotypes". Hunter, Explorer, Teacher, Gatherer, Warrior and Nomad. You can quickly shuffle into part of the description by blood type. From that point, you have to resort to measuring body characteristics to whittle down to the "correct" genotype. Once determined, there are food and exercise recommendations consistent with the identified genotype.

The upshot is that epigenetics plays a big part in shaping the individual beyond the initial genetic constitution.

49 posted on 02/18/2009 11:51:42 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Wacka

Wrong again. The Darwiniacs labeled 97% of the genome as leftover “junk” from our evolutionary past. Creationists and IDers have long argued that the designer would not create a genome that is mostly junk, and predicted that function would be found for the same. As per usual, the creationists got it right, and the Evos were dead-wrong.


50 posted on 02/18/2009 11:53:47 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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