Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Sen. Warner calls for discussion of end-of-life treatment
The Virginian-Pilot ^ | March 6, 2009 | Dale Eisman

Posted on 03/07/2009 5:54:40 AM PST by csvset



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: 111th; bho44; bhoethics; death; euthanasia; markwarner; moralabsolutes; prolife; soylentgreen; warner
Here it comes people. The gubamint is going to be pulling the plug on ya'.

Sorry, but ObamaCare says you have to die.

1 posted on 03/07/2009 5:54:41 AM PST by csvset
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: csvset

Translation.

When we take over the health care industry we want to be able to kill those pesky old people or anyone else for that matter who will threaten to bust the budget.

First kill all the unwanted babies and when that is accomplished kill all those nasty old folks.

Change! Ain’t it grand!


2 posted on 03/07/2009 6:00:19 AM PST by mort56 (He who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither. - Ben Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

Warner will be sending folks to the ovens or the "showers". Change. Be very afraid.

3 posted on 03/07/2009 6:05:58 AM PST by csvset
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

4 posted on 03/07/2009 6:10:12 AM PST by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

At the risk of being unfeeling.. shouldn’t Teddy Kennedy be at the front of the line volunteering. It would set such a good example.


5 posted on 03/07/2009 6:12:11 AM PST by pnut22
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

Do I get the feeling Mark “Horseface” Warner is tired of paying for Momma’s care, and would love to have some way of helping her shuffle off the mortal coil?

What a despicable POS.


6 posted on 03/07/2009 6:17:42 AM PST by Darnright (There can never be a complete confidence in a power which is excessive. - Tacitus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

Pizza face liberal killer.


7 posted on 03/07/2009 6:18:12 AM PST by bmwcyle (Obama voters, your 401 K's are dead. Now what?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: theKid51; ourusa; Apple Blossom

ping


8 posted on 03/07/2009 6:19:05 AM PST by bmwcyle (Obama voters, your 401 K's are dead. Now what?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

Translation:

If enough of you choose to die without aggressive care it will leave enough healthcare dollars for those of us who want aggressive care.

If enough of you do not choose to die, we will just have to only provide agressive care to those deemed ‘worthy’ by a special panel consisting of former politicians.


9 posted on 03/07/2009 6:26:13 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

“Such measures account for more than one-fourth of Medicare payments and 10 to 12 percent of all health...”

Yeah, it’s not about compassion or caring for loved ones in their final hours, it’s about Government money. There is absolutely no doubt that when socialized medicine is foisted on us a doctor will come in to a dying person’s hospital room and tell the family, “well, you’ve used up more than your share, time to pull the plug.”


10 posted on 03/07/2009 6:27:32 AM PST by yazoo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

For the moment, let’s pretend this is valid: that we need to be more accepting of the changes that age brings to us rather than treating them all. I say, let’s start by eliminating Viagra and Cialis. That’s just treating one of the things that can happen as we age. AND we could avoid those awful commercials on tv. I’m sure no one in Congress would oppose that, now, would they?

(no sound but crickets.....)


11 posted on 03/07/2009 6:48:47 AM PST by trimom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: yazoo

The problem with this attitude is that it ignores that there actually *are* limited resources. Regardless of who is paying for it (public or private insurer), does it make sense to spend $200,000 to extend a dying person’s life by a week? How about a day?

With a little bit of critical thinking skills, it’s not difficult to transform that question: Is it worth it to extend a dying person’s life by a week at the expense of treating a hundred people with otherwise easily-curable health problems?

When my grandpa was dying, they tried like 3 different emergency surgeries, none of which had any real effect, and it left him covered in tubes and bandages. He was 88 years old and in poor health, though. Is that really better than just dying 2-3 days earlier with your family by your side? And was it worth it to spend $100,000 on that rather than converting that $100,000 into 1000 free trips to the doctor for random people?

These are questions that are worth legitimately discussing, instead of just saying “OMG, the gov’t wants to kill old people since they don’t care!!!”


12 posted on 03/07/2009 6:51:46 AM PST by OH4life
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: pnut22
At the risk of being unfeeling.. shouldn’t Teddy Kennedy be at the front of the line volunteering. It would set such a good example.

That would be a good question for Senator Warner to tackle: Is Senator Kennedy at a point where the expense of further treatment is no longer justified?

13 posted on 03/07/2009 6:53:46 AM PST by Will88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: csvset
Why do waste any more money on the Swimmer ?

Or are there rules for the overlords
and other rules for the peasants ?

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

14 posted on 03/07/2009 6:54:41 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OH4life
The shift first to private insurance and now to government paying for medical care is a big part of the problem.

Economics covers all areas of life(and death)'many people have irrational expectations of doctors.

15 posted on 03/07/2009 6:56:13 AM PST by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: OH4life

OTOH there are some elderly who could benefit from surgical interventions but they don’t get it because of their age.


16 posted on 03/07/2009 6:58:05 AM PST by ladyjane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: csvset

This is what we are paying for? Steal the money from our checks and then don’t pay it back. That kind of action would get your legs broken in South Philly. And yet we put up with it? How insane is this?

No more, I REFUSE! I am not going to continue this insane charade. I will resist with every fiber of my being.


17 posted on 03/07/2009 7:03:37 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

Ok - lets give 500 million dollars to study the affects of this. Now we need some volunteers to do this.
I propose let’s start with the Congress and the Senate. Kennedy comes to mind, Mr. Warner has outlived his usefulness if he ever was useful.
I propose the Congress should have to try out every law they force down our throats. Lets start putting them into the unemployment line. See how they like standing in line instead of working.


18 posted on 03/07/2009 7:16:55 AM PST by ODDITHER
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OH4life

“These are questions that are worth legitimately discussing, instead of just saying “OMG, the gov’t wants to kill old people since they don’t care!!!”

I completely agree with you. My point wasn’t that we should extend people’s lives regardless of cost or quality of life, but that if we turn this decision over to the government the only basis for the decision will be the cost factor. I think the fallacy of your argument is that by spending 200,000 to extend one person’s life we are robbing other people of health care, and such is not the case. How would you convert the money you saved by letting someone die into the “100 free trips to to doctor for random people?” It’s not as if there is a pot of money from which we all draw till it runs out.

It seems to me we could come up with a better strategy involving the family, the doctor and the insurance company. The problem we have today is that as soon as you turn 65 your insurance company pretty much turns you over to Medicaid so there is no entity which can truly control the spending. Government has no incentive or ability to deal with individuals, and ends up making rules which try to fit everyone into a single box. Your Grandpa was 88, but what if he was 75 or 70, would the surgeries have been worth while? That’s a question no one can answer, except the family and their doctor. My only point is that we need to keep the government out of the decision process.

When my father was dying the doctor told us he could keep him alive for a month or so in the hospital, but if we took him home he would last only a week. We took him home and kept him comfortable with hospice care. It had nothing to do with money and everything to do with our family’s decision about quality of life.

My biggest problem with healthcare is that we have a service that someone else pays for. Anytime you can get a good or service with someone else’s money you will always demand more and better. This is why we have such high health care costs, because the demand is totally out of control. I had back problems a few years ago and went to a specialist who gave me an MRI and sent me to physical therapy. It cost my insurance company about 10K. None of those things helped and eventually the pain went away when I got a new bed. Had I been required to pay the 10K I probably would have waited till the pain became bad enough to affect my quality of life, and then decided if the 10K was a worthwhile expense, then I might have shopped around for a doctor who would keep my costs down. I don’t know what the answer is, but there are lot of systems being tried in the private sector that make it worthwhile for people to shop around and make decisions about cost versus gain with healthcare. All we are doing with socialized medicine is throwing gasoline on an already out of control fire.


19 posted on 03/07/2009 7:26:01 AM PST by yazoo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: lonevoice

All of us who are retired, or who are about to retire, have lost huge amounts of our money in the stock market and now our 401K retirement accounts. Many of us saved money for our retirement, paid off our mortgages a long time ago, and we worked hard for 30 plus years. We were charitable and we paid more than our fair share of taxes into the system. We are a large demographic in America and our healthcare is not inexepensive. Don’t think for a minute that the long range plan is to deny more and more healthcare to the elderly, even before they are near death. Look at the cost of our healthcare as compared to that of any other demographic group. Obama’s long range plan is nothing short of GERIATRIC GENOCIDE, period.


20 posted on 03/07/2009 8:13:38 AM PST by Pride in the USA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OH4life
Is it worth it to extend a dying person’s life by a week at the expense of treating a hundred people with otherwise easily-curable health problems?

First, I would like to ask where are the "hundred people with otherwise easily-curable health problems"?

Secondly, what evidence do you have that our medical resources are so limited? If this was Canada, and you were waiting 6 months for heart bypass surgery, I would agree that there was a shortage - but I see no evidence of this in the United States. Neither do I see soup-kitchen like lines of critically ill youngsters waiting for care.

I'm sorry for the procedures performed on your grandfather that have left you bitter and disillusioned, but your family had the right to refuse such treatment - especially if he had left advanced directives for his care. Those rights could have been exercised.

21 posted on 03/07/2009 8:15:25 AM PST by NoPrisoners (Huh? You mean he's NOT the messiah???)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: yazoo
It had nothing to do with money and everything to do with our family’s decision about quality of life.

Exactly so...and your father was afforded the dignity he deserved by being cared for at home surrounded by family. These are decisions that MUST be left to the individual and the family. Any intrusion by the government strips us of our rights and allows someone else to decide our worth, and is an extremely slippery slope.

22 posted on 03/07/2009 8:21:37 AM PST by NoPrisoners (Huh? You mean he's NOT the messiah???)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: OH4life
And was it worth it to spend $100,000 on that rather than converting that $100,000 into 1000 free trips to the doctor for random people?

Newbie, you suffer from the illusion that you have the right to decide how to spend OUR money.

You're wrong. Post on DU where they'll appreciate it.

23 posted on 03/07/2009 9:17:28 AM PST by jimt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: csvset

Steffie Woolhandler, a Harvard Medical School professor and co-founder of Physicians for a National Health Program, argued that there’s no evidence the end-of-life planning Warner advocated would reduce health-care costs.

Everyone should plan for end-of-life care, she said, but the key to reducing costs is replacing the private insurance plans that pay for most U.S. health care with a government-run “single-payer” health system.

“There’s a tremendous amount of waste” associated with private insurance, Woolhandler said, with companies overcharging by about 13 percent nationally.


Proof positive that liberals, even, (or perhaps particularly), Harvard educated ones, do not have control of their faculties.

As a hospice nurse for going on 2 decades and a nurse for 25 years total and an Air Force medic prior to that, it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to understand the most wasteful entity of all IS the government!

Medicare fraud alone in this country costs us about $33 billion a year!

And for the most part, the elderly already are covered by the gov. via medicare, and it’s the 80-90 year olds that comprise the bulk of our patient loads.

But if families were educated and proper end of life issues WERE addressed, they’d not be placed on feeding tubes, undergo needless surgery, and be kept alive for the sake of the physician or the family, prolonging their suffering against their will; and the time to accomplish this is not when they’re actively dying and they and their families are under duress, but before-hand.

And of course, we ALL benefit as a society, financially and otherwise!

Liberalism is the disease killing this country.


24 posted on 03/07/2009 9:27:48 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

bookmark


25 posted on 03/07/2009 6:19:24 PM PST by Corin Stormhands ("Failed Obama Administration" (TM))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset; 185JHP; 230FMJ; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or DirtyHarryY2K to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


26 posted on 03/08/2009 12:00:11 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

Hey Warner! You go first! Try out the policy, and get back to us on how it goes!


27 posted on 03/08/2009 12:13:44 PM PDT by GWMcClintock ("When the foundations are being destroyed, what can the righteous do?" Ps. 11:3)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset
Pinged from Terri Dailies


28 posted on 03/08/2009 3:56:39 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson