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Canadian court orders release of forum data (Free Dominion)
HotAir ^

Posted on 03/24/2009 7:01:42 AM PDT by Sir Gawain

Canadian court orders release of forum data

posted at 8:36 am on March 24, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

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A judge has ordered Free Dominion, the Canadian counterpart to Free Republic, to release the records of its anonymous forum posters in order to enable a lawsuit by Richard Warman. The release will mean the end of anonymity for all practical purposes in Canada, as well as an end to privacy for Free Dominion itself, which must also produce all its hosting agreements and ownership information as well. The judge offered this ironic justification for his order:

[33] In the case before the court, we are dealing with an anti-hate speech advocate and Defendants whose website is so controversial that it is blocked to employees of the Ontario Public Service.

That’s the threshold for privacy in Canada? Anyone styling themselves as an “anti-hate speech advocate” can raid the records of a web community he doesn’t like? Note also the circular reasoning here employed by Judge Stanley Kersham. If the government sees fit to block a website from its employees at some level, then it’s permissible to strip them of their rights to privacy and speech at any point.

As far as the “anti-hate-speech” advocate himself, Kersham seems to have missed this finding by the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal from just two weeks ago. Richard Warman was not just a customer of the CHRC, he was one of its big offenders as well:

I do not see any acceptable reason for Mr. Warman to have participated on the Stormfront or Vanguard sites, since there appears to be ample easily obtained messages on these sites available without his involvement. Moreover, it is possible that his activity in this regard, could have precipitated further hate messages in response. His explanation for including other hate messages in his postings by mistake seems very weak to me.

Mr. Warman has, with the assistance of the Commission, instituted most of the s. 13 (1) complaints under the Act that have come before the Tribunal. He has been very successful in these cases and has garnered accolades for his work in this regard. The evidence in this case of his participation on Internet sites similar to the Northern Alliance site is both disappointing and disturbing. It diminishes his credibility. For this reason and because the activities of the Respondents have ceased for a lengthy period of time, I will not make any further Orders in this matter.

In essence, Kersham just allowed a participant on neo-Nazi discussion forums to raid Free Dominion’s business records.

Free Dominion wants to fight this ruling but is just about out of funds. Read their entire post to find out how you can help, and keep up with the story at Five Feet of Fury as well. If you haven’t already done so, order your copy of Ezra Levant’s Shakedown, which has more on the Human Rights Commission, its tribunal, and Richard Warman.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Canada; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: freedominion
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1 posted on 03/24/2009 7:01:43 AM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: Sir Gawain

Free Dominion would have been better off to have kept it’s hosting in the US or in some other place that was out of reach of Canadian busy-bodies.


2 posted on 03/24/2009 7:04:01 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money -- Thatcher)
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To: Sir Gawain

Waaaaat?


3 posted on 03/24/2009 7:05:20 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Obama dozed.....people froze.)
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To: Sir Gawain

being in Canada, with everything that happened to Mark Steyn, they should have seen this coming. They should have asked themselves how much information it was necessary to keep.


4 posted on 03/24/2009 7:05:31 AM PDT by chuck_the_tv_out
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To: Sir Gawain

From what I’ve read, Warman was a baiter, he would sign up to sites and post anything and everything to elicit a negative response he could use, most of his posts where worse than the ones he is complaining about.


5 posted on 03/24/2009 7:06:10 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: chuck_the_tv_out
We need to free our Canadian Brethren as soon as we are done with the GWOT.


6 posted on 03/24/2009 7:09:30 AM PDT by downwdims (It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority)
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To: fanfan

BUMP


7 posted on 03/24/2009 7:11:05 AM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; akatel; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; Allerious; ...



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!
8 posted on 03/24/2009 7:12:01 AM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: backhoe

Ping


9 posted on 03/24/2009 7:12:25 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Sir Gawain

Time to donate to them, friends!


10 posted on 03/24/2009 7:16:52 AM PDT by ConservativeMind (Cancel liberal newspaper, magazine & cable TV subscriptions (Free TV-dtv.gov). Stop funding the MSM.)
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To: Sir Gawain

If the Canadian government finds Free Dominion so objectionable, they should pass a retroactive 90% tax on anyone involved with the website.


11 posted on 03/24/2009 7:20:00 AM PDT by nitzy (Take your pick: Globalism OR Limited Government)
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To: Sir Gawain

Warman is a whiney jerk. Calling him “Mr.” is an insult to actual men.


12 posted on 03/24/2009 7:20:55 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (ALSO SPRACH ZEROTHUSTRA)
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To: Sir Gawain

bump


13 posted on 03/24/2009 7:23:34 AM PDT by gibsosa
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To: Sir Gawain

They should fold up shop, destroy the records and move the hosting to the US. Screw the fascist bastards.


14 posted on 03/24/2009 7:31:42 AM PDT by headstamp 2 ("Government is a disease masquerading as it's own cure")
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To: bamahead; GMMAC; Clive; exg; kanawa; backhoe; -YYZ-; Former Proud Canadian; Squawk 8888; ...
Thanks for the ping, Bamahead.


15 posted on 03/24/2009 7:38:44 AM PDT by fanfan (God, Bless America, please.)
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To: downwdims

We are done with the GWOT. The Obama administration has rescinded the use of the term “Global War on Terror”. Office of Management and Budget (OMB) has advised DoD to replace this term with “Overseas Contingency Operations” in correspondence.


16 posted on 03/24/2009 7:43:45 AM PDT by LambSlave
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To: Sir Gawain

FR and America: Free Dominion is the canary in the mine shaft. Beware of how this will ripple in this country.


17 posted on 03/24/2009 7:43:57 AM PDT by alwaysconservative (Has the most incompetent President appointed ANY Democrat who is not a fraud or a crook?)
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To: PapaBear3625
Free Dominion would have been better off to have kept it’s hosting in the US or in some other place that was out of reach of Canadian busy-bodies.

The Free Dominion server is in Panama.

18 posted on 03/24/2009 7:44:19 AM PDT by fanfan (God, Bless America, please.)
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To: potlatch

19 posted on 03/24/2009 7:48:14 AM PDT by devolve (-- "... my Muslim faith....." ABC-TV with Steffi --)
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To: Sir Gawain

FD might want to have an Unfortunate Incident impact their disk drives.


20 posted on 03/24/2009 7:52:04 AM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast (1st call: Abbas. 1st interview: Al Arabiya. 1st energy decision: halt drilling in UT. Arabs 1st!)
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To: alwaysconservative; fanfan; Straight Vermonter
FR and America: Free Dominion is the canary in the mine shaft. Beware of how this will ripple in this country.

Absolutely true- we have entered "interesting times..."

21 posted on 03/24/2009 7:52:37 AM PDT by backhoe (All across America, the Lights are going out...)
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To: fanfan

“The Free Dominion server is in Panama.”

You area correct.

What I can’t understand is how can Canada get its hands on this information? There are secrecy laws in Panama.

Maybe they don’t know and assume it is still in Canada.


22 posted on 03/24/2009 7:55:35 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: LambSlave

And you believe them? It’s Minitrue


23 posted on 03/24/2009 8:02:09 AM PDT by downwdims (It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority)
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To: mnehring

Is it possible to track his enrollments on Conservative sites so as to pull his baiting statements?

It would be nice to hang him with his own statements!


24 posted on 03/24/2009 8:02:28 AM PDT by mckenzie7 (TOTUS = PONZI)
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To: LambSlave

Words...words...words (don’t) have meaning!


25 posted on 03/24/2009 8:04:36 AM PDT by mckenzie7 (TOTUS = PONZI)
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To: nitzy
If the Canadian government finds Free Dominion so objectionable

This isn't the Canadian government. It's the Supreme Court of Ontario. Warman want's to file a suite against some FD posters and he doesn't have a clue who they are.

This is good. . This isn't the Ontario Human Rights star chamber. It's a real court where Warman will not only pay but be held accountable for his words and actions, in Discovery and Court and when he loses , the defendants costs.

26 posted on 03/24/2009 8:07:00 AM PDT by Snowyman
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To: Canadian Outrage; fanfan

ocrap


27 posted on 03/24/2009 8:15:39 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 64 of our national holiday from reality.)
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To: Sir Gawain

I wonder if the owner of the FR website would turn over membership records to the US government on demand? Such a thing could be literally dangerous to us.


28 posted on 03/24/2009 8:26:33 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (I am inconsolate over the death of our country.)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer); conniew; backhoe

I thought that was why Connie and Mark moved the server.

Connie?


29 posted on 03/24/2009 8:28:36 AM PDT by fanfan (God, Bless America, please.)
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To: null and void

er, yup.


30 posted on 03/24/2009 8:29:26 AM PDT by fanfan (God, Bless America, please.)
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To: TexasRepublic; Jim Robinson

Yes, if the secret service asked for them.

Jim posted a thread about it.


31 posted on 03/24/2009 8:30:45 AM PDT by fanfan (God, Bless America, please.)
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To: TexasRepublic; Jim Robinson
I wonder if the owner of the FR website would turn over membership records to the US government on demand? Such a thing could be literally dangerous to us.

There are circumstances where he must, and has.

Regarding salty talk aimed at the president (or other officials) vs visits from the SS by Jim Robinson

32 posted on 03/24/2009 8:45:23 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 64 of our national holiday from reality.)
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To: Sir Gawain

I did a little research on offshore hosting in Panama.

I do not know this company, but as I ran through them, they all said the same thing:
_________________________________________

The Panama Advantage

Tax-friendly offshore hosting with strong privacy and world-class connectivity

Panama is world renowned as a major ‘tax-free’ jurisdiction with tens of thousands of enterprises already installed.

Panama enforces some of the most strict privacy laws in the world, making it illegal to share information with third parties. Panama is strategically located at the crossroads of North and South America where four major sub-ocean fiber-optic networks meet.

The combination of tax-free, strong privacy and network connectivity benefits are a huge incentive for any e-business selling information, products or services internationally to get web hosting offshore here from Panama-based Hub.Org.

Key advantages of Hub.Org operating in jurisdiction of Panama —

• Tax-Free Business Opportunities

Panama is known all over the world as an international business tax haven. Since taxes in Panama are assessed according to territoriality guidelines (ie only locally produced income may be taxed), foreign-source income is considered tax-free. as the government does not levy income taxes on businesses hosting their websites in Panama.

Unlike in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, and other G-7 nations, where regulators have created laws that tax online businesses hosted in their country, hosting your website in Panama allows you to run your e-business tax-free.

“Businesses can now have North American connectivity speeds and reliability in a tax-friendly environment.” - Ian Lenathan (Ex - manager, Nortel Networks Corp.)

• World-Class Connectivity

Panama has historically played a major role as a transportation and communication center, connecting the North and South American continents, as well as the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Today Panama continues its pivotal role as a communications leader, sitting atop the intersection of over 4 major undersea fiber-optic networks. Thus Panama has some of the best fiber-optic cable access and bandwidth in the world, enabling Hub.Org to host websites easily accessable from Canada, Singapore, and Brazil.

“Why Panama? Because it’s one of the most wired places in the world. All of the fiber-optic backbones of the United States, Canada, and Latin America cross Panama. If there’s a problem inside the United States, the most obvious place to go outside is Panama.” - Nelson Bendeck (representative of Sun Tone, an arm of Sun Microsystems that is installing $500,000 worth of new server equipment and software in Panama)

• High Security

Geographically and politically, Panama is an unusually secure country for international businesses. Unlike many other popular offshore locations, Panama City is located outside of any earthquake, hurricane, and active-volcano zones. Our data center sits well above any flood zones and benefits from the advanced security infrastructure left behind in the former U.S.military-managed Canal Zone.

“Panama is one of the most secure places in the world. It has to be secure to allow international commerce to pass through the canal.” - Nelson Bendeck (a representative of Sun Tone, an arm of Sun Microsystems)

• Data Protection

Unlike the United States, Canada, and many European countries, the Panamanian government forbids outside regulatory agencies from removing, sequestering, or freezing a company’s assets (ie your website), unless a Panamanian court orders such actions.

• No Regulatory Constraints

Panama does not inflict the same high regulatory constraints for online businesses as most other countries. The country’s intellectual property laws grant online activities the freedom of free enterprise and free speech, liberties that are increasingly threatened in other parts of the world.

• Advanced Data Center Technology

Our servers are located at a high level security center based in the former Fort Clayton U.S. military base along the Panama Canal. The data center is fully protected from general power failures through the use of redundant power sources and backup power provisions. The facilities are constructed to meet seismic zone 3 criteria and have Point of Presence access to four major undersea fiber optic networks.Good luck to the Canadian government in trying to get information.

http://www.hub.org/en/home/panama.php
_____________________________________________
Panama does not take orders from the Canadian government.


33 posted on 03/24/2009 8:46:15 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: PapaBear3625

FD moved its operations to Panama several years ago just in case of such an assault, so I don’t see how this can proceed. Unless Connie and Mark brought it back after the Warman loss in the tribunal.


34 posted on 03/24/2009 8:47:19 AM PDT by Don W (People who think are a threat to socialism)
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To: Sir Gawain; Snowyman

Thanks for posting. Interesting.


35 posted on 03/24/2009 8:50:26 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: All

Question:

If Free Dominion had a “room” on FreeRepublic - would it subject them and us to sanction or legal charges?

Is the U.S. liable in Canadian law?


36 posted on 03/24/2009 8:54:54 AM PDT by imintrouble
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To: null and void

Thanks for the link, Nully.


37 posted on 03/24/2009 8:59:45 AM PDT by fanfan (God, Bless America, please.)
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To: downwdims

For those inside the beltway, this is a clear indication of a change in policy by the administration. They don’t want a GWOT, they are indicating where their line in the sand is; to support temporary contingencies but not a global war against the jihadist terror network. Words from the executive do have meaning.


38 posted on 03/24/2009 9:07:40 AM PDT by LambSlave
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To: Don W
The physical servers might be in Panama, but as long as personnel remain in Canada they can be grabbed and ordered to hand over info from wherever it happens to be stored.

For FreeDominion to be secure, then they would need to not have any operations staff or owners be within reach of Canadian authorities.

39 posted on 03/24/2009 9:09:09 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money -- Thatcher)
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To: fanfan

Please see my post #33.

That is exactly why those folks moved their server off shore.

Therefore, I don’t understand the problem.

Either the Canadian government is bluffing, or they don’t know what they are doing.

I don’t know why the move to hire lawyers when Panamanian law makes it illegal to divulge offshore hosting information.


40 posted on 03/24/2009 9:24:07 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: nitzy

?

It’s not the Canadian government, it’s the Liberal tyranny in the Ontario, and the Ontario provincial government, and obviously the leftwing gay rights activists in a position of power who arbitrarily blocked Free Dominion’s URL on provincial government computers.
This, and who knows how many other instances of media/ information blocking being carried out by Ontario liberals in an attempt to prevent it’s citizens from learning of liberal corruption exposed by anything they see as “conservative, right wing” media and information sites on the internet is illegal. This is a juicy scandel that the conservatives should jump on and expose, adding it to the list of liberal corruption scandals. Just in time for a possible election too.


41 posted on 03/24/2009 9:29:57 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: chuck_the_tv_out

Do they know about the Canadian hosted sites that preach hate against Christians and conservatives? I do.


42 posted on 03/24/2009 9:32:56 AM PDT by rintense (Go Israel!)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer); PapaBear3625

See PapaBear3625’s post # 39.

Maybe that’s it.

Connie and Mark live here.


43 posted on 03/24/2009 9:36:03 AM PDT by fanfan (God, Bless America, please.)
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To: headstamp 2
"They should fold up shop, destroy the records and move the hosting to the US. Screw the fascist bastards."

I am sure Comrade Barry would protect those Canadian refugees. /sarc

44 posted on 03/24/2009 9:36:07 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (will work for bailout bonus.... Twitter: maddawggmorgan)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

It’s not federal, “The Canadian government”, It’s the Ontario provincial liberal court, and players within the Ontario liberal government.

Freee Dominions case would probably be thrown out of the higher, federal court based on the Canadian Human Rights commissions findings alone.

As far as where Free Dominion is being hosted, it shows as a “.com /pa” so I would agree that the provincial court is either bluffing, or stupid.

That doesn’t relieve Free dominion site owners from having to argue it in court however, the sites owners are Canadian and live in Ontario I believe. That may tangle the issue if there aren’t any similar case laws that make Free Dominion outside of Ontario’s courts reach.


45 posted on 03/24/2009 9:48:22 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: PapaBear3625
"The physical servers might be in Panama, but as long as personnel remain in Canada they can be grabbed and ordered to hand over info from wherever it happens to be stored. For FreeDominion to be secure, then they would need to not have any operations staff or owners be within reach of Canadian authorities."

That's what I was thinking.

Plus People seen to lump anything to do with Canadian law into one catagory "The Canadian government". There court structure is the same as ours, they have "State" courts and "Federal" courts. Free Dominions case is all within the Ontario "state" courts at this point, and it's not specified which Human rights commission is involved with the complainant. Ontario's, Alberta's, B.C's? Regardless, it's a completely different entity.

46 posted on 03/24/2009 9:55:16 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: fanfan

“Good luck to the Canadian government in trying to get information.”

That was not part of the original article. It got posted there by mistake. I wondered what had happened to my comment.

I just now noticed it.


47 posted on 03/24/2009 9:58:36 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Nathan Zachary

Thank you for your comments.


48 posted on 03/24/2009 10:06:04 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: PapaBear3625

Also, this lawsuit that Warman is trying to launch is against someone who posts on the site, who may or may not be a Canadian. He has no case if he can’t prove it’s a Canadian, and who it is for that matter, and that’s what this is all about, whether free dominion has to prove the info or not.

That’s why people should use an anonymous proxy server, like https://www.torproject.org just in case courts order a site to turn over their records.


49 posted on 03/24/2009 10:11:51 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: PapaBear3625
Free Dominion would have been better off to have kept it’s hosting in the US or in some other place that was out of reach of Canadian busy-bodies.

I thought they had... a year or two ago.

50 posted on 03/24/2009 10:27:43 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Change is not a plan; Hope is not a strategy.)
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