Posted on 03/30/2009 3:24:28 AM PDT by EBH
LONDON (MarketWatch) -- U.S. stock futures slumped on Monday, as the White House said bankruptcy was a possibility for General Motors and Chrysler while hopes for a new round of global stimulus spending appear thwarted.
S&P 500 futures fell 21.4 points to 794.70 and Nasdaq 100 futures fell 30.75 points to 1,225.20. Dow industrial futures dropped 187 points...
...Wagoner's apparent successor, COO Fritz Henderson, wasn't warmly received
(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...
So, in 2010 you want the GOP to run on a platform of : “Obama should have Nationalized GM.:
Interesting.
Perhaps, in 2010 the GOP can also run on the fact that Bush nationalized AIG and gave a trillion dollars to the Banks and Wall Street.
You see, I hate Socialism not matter what political party forces it upon me and my family.
GM and Chrysler need to go bankrupt and AIG and banks the market will cure itself not the feds.
I agree completely. Having the feds involved is only bad news as they can only screw things up worse.
Are you fricking kidding me? Everyone and their momma here was railing against ALL bailouts - including AIG and Citi.
Oh, no. The platform should be nice and vague and go something like “Obama Destroyed American Industry”.
After all, if you can win with “Hope And Change”, you don’t have to be real specific, do you?
Stockholders, who hold nothing, Bush/Obama/Congress took the ‘hold’ part away. So that that. Bond holders will get what they are told they will get. (Maybe in twenty years a Federal court will award them something)
So, really what we are left with is the UAW, Obama, Republican cowardly pukes, and non union taxpayers with hose size needles in their arms draining their work, effort, blood and taxes.
This is what YOU support.
With out GM/Chrysler dead, Ford will be next. We could of had no bailouts, dead GM/Chrysler an infused Ford, saved 20-30 billion so far, and a 100+ billion dollars to come, instead we get a weak GM, weak Chrysler, weak Ford, strong UAW, and mewing cowardly, timorous RINOS wetting their panties while what happens to the auto companies gets replicated like a virus throughout the economy.
Nice.
It is not a matter of what I support as it is the vision I see. From a theoretical business stand point, the fate of GM should be left to the market. There is some question in my mind that Chrysler as a private company will get the same exact treatment, but the market should decide.
From a political standpoint, GM can not fail because Michigan goes down the tubes. The problems and costs of such an event are unthinkable. The dominoes of Ohio and Indiana and possibly Illinois would likely fall as well.
Katrina is trivial when compared to the catastrophe.
there = their... coffee
Relax—I’m referring to the US Government, not the Freepers. I realize if it was up to the Freepers, we probably wouldn’t have spent a dime on the bailout.
In medicine you learn triage. You tell the minor injured shut up and wait, and you walk over the dead, because if you don’t they will waste resources and time and others who might of lived( in this case Ford ) die.
Colonel let squad listening posts/ observation posts get run over and wiped out so that the brigade can survive.
The upper Mid West has gone through many economies, and can so again.
Having GM/Chrysler is like having a dead arm soaked in antibiotics attached to you. Yeah, you got a arm, sort of, but you aren’t going to be productive.
The GM/Chrysler clown posse circus is tying up labor, talent, money, politics and mostly, as in your case, imagination. No one will think, strive, do or make the alternative while these living dead are stinking up the place.
What you are basically advocating is a three state public housing welfare zone. Like, urban Detroit, only bigger. That, is so so pathetic.
Speaking of ‘saving’ and ‘revivals’ and government/private partnerships, how are the smaller experimental socialist petri dishes of Detroit, Gary, Flint, Saginaw, Toledo, Cleveland doing?
So, even though you have a hundred examples, over three decades of government failure, wasted TRILLIONS....you are advocating the same thing.
You got to be on the teat somewhere in this picture.
And watch what happens to them now that they are a collector’s item.
It is getting hard to keep the dance card straight:
GM: no bail-out, it was a loan. GM has already received $13.4 billion in government loans. LOANS, not a bailout. How much say should 0bama have over the loan?
Chrysler has survived on $4 billion in federal aid.
If you aren't a troll, you are at least somebody who didn't read the FR posts when Bush started this horrible nonsense. At that time, the vast majority of FR posters, myself emphatically included, loudly denounced the bailout and stated the imperative need for bankruptcy, not bailout. Indeed, the biggest reason for bankruptcy was the huge risk that bailouts could be used as a backdoor way to nationalize the whole U.S. auto industry, not just GM.
If the Usurper were simply to say it's obvious that the bailout was a bad idea from the beginning and GM should go into Chapter 11, that would be fine. Unfortunately, the government's critique of GM and Chrysler makes it clear that the government is second guessing the management of both companies in, among other things, their product mix, and insisting they produce more small, unsaleable cars, rather than the light trucks and SUVs that actually sell and make money.
The real threat here is nationalization of the whole U.S. auto industry, not just GM and Chrysler. If the government keeps them alive by taking a larger and larger stake in each, it will have a powerful interest in assuring the success of each. Even worse, it, the unions, and the Watermelons (are you one??) will be designing unsaleable motorized shoe boxes that will be competing against real cars. The only "solution" to such a problem is either to nationalize every other U.S. auto manufacturer or to force them to manufacture only the government mandated garbage.
"Last week, at the official British Treasury auction, investors failed to buy the full complement of so-called “gilt-edged” 40-year bonds. Two such auctions have already failed in Germany. The U.S. Treasury, facing similar investor reluctance to snap up $34 billion of five-year notes, was forced to increase the interest it will pay on them"
If we don't, and we won't, close the water tight money doors on GM/Chrysler, the ship is going to sink. No one will buy promises from weak borrowers who do not have the guts to do what needs to be done. That's why GM couldn't not fined one, single loan in the entire world. Not one. Zero Zip. So too now the UK, Germany, and coming the US.
How many times did Germany rebuild it's industrial Ruhr? Three? And you are crying, mewing about Michigan? Pathetic. A historical. Economically ignorant and financially not going to happen, because if it does, and all the others start doing the bailout boogie, this entire worlds economy will go down, because no one will trust the paper these lying, lazy, lawyer, Harvard, Yale political pukes print dead president on. And then, no one will buy cars, no one will build cars, because the one thing that glues us together, and lubricates everything everything at the same time, is paper money, and it will be worthless. We already have had real, hard, no fooling around shots across the bow in the bond markets, gold markets, Chinese Treasury.
The 'Planners' will just pass Federal law( orders really ) to force you to buy them. Then, you see, the whole thing will have been a success? Right? The UAW gets the profits like workers at Peoples Zug Automobile Cooperative, and you are forced to overpay for junk. Eh comrade?
......What you are basically advocating is a three state public housing welfare zone. ....
The word advocating implies favoritism or positive attitude.
I do not advocate the midwest states becoming welfare enclaves. You made the welfare state description, it is probably a good one. When I project current events, that is what I see in the future is disaster if GM fails, but I am certainly not in favor of such a turn of events.
Although I am not well verse on Euro things, I believe the same condition exists in the European Union. Some are very very shaky. Portugal comes to mind.
I completely agree. See my last sentence.
I don’t disagree with the main points you raise. I state what it obvious to me. The arm may be already dad from gangrene. The flank outpost might be over run.
None of that matters to the marxists in power. Michigan must not be allowed to go under because GM failed. They will not let that happen.
Reason and logic and history don’t matter to them.
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