Posted on 04/04/2009 1:53:15 AM PDT by valkyry1
It was my impression police nationwide determined lessons learned at Columbine would be implemented in future similar situations. Apparently the Binghampton police responders didn't get the memo. At Columbine one male teacher bled out as a result of the tentative response by police.
Actually a armed off duty cop from a nearby city was in the SLC Mall at the time of the shooting. He responded almost immediately, killed the shooter (or the shooter shot himself?) the incident was over quickly, in any case, thus saving several lives.
Scary, isn’t it?
In the end, many cops are riding the government gravy train and just hangin’ in there to collect pensions. Not all, but many.
I expect they have no problem getting tough and throwing their weight around when confronting and intimidating an unarmed person such as the cop who harassed the guy outside of the hospital while his MIL died.
I have a lot of respect for firefighters, but cops scare me.
Never bothered me. I laugh whenever I see those signs saying "no weapons allowed". Unless they have metal detectors at the entrance, they're going to get an armed CCW permit holder with a locked and loaded in their pocket no matter how stupid THEY are. I used to hesitate doing that but with since the country has turned totally crazy recently (bad guy pc friendly), I have no problem carrying where ever I go. My understanding is that if it's a private place (restaurant, business store, etc,) all they can do is require you to leave if they find out you are carrying. In any case, my life or my family's life is number one. Then comes the lives of those around me that are in imminent danger from a deranged shooter. That is when I draw the line and the hell with the warnings that I can't carry into the liberals (no weapons allowed) premise.
“I also work in a place where no weapons are allowed, yes, we’re very careful about who comes in the door and you must have card access but I think it’s incredibly stupid to not have someone in the workplace armed.”
I used to work at a place back in the mid 1980’s where the owner encouraged us to come to work armed! The guy in the cube next to me kept a loaded Mossberg 500 shorty leaning against the wall. I carried my .38 snub nose revolver all the time.
There were about thirty of us that worked there. At least half of us were armed at all times.
A New York style shooter would not have lasted very long there.
But that was in the South and many years ago......
The "Sniveling, Whining, Abjectly-Terrified" gang at Columbine did the same.
Actually, you DO have that right.
The people choking their lungs out in the Reich's "showers" had that right.
What you don't have is the freedom to exercise that right.
> Actually, you DO have that right.
I disagree.
The only true inherent “Rights” are those that are granted by God. Nowhere in the Bible will you find the Right to keep and bear Arms — despite the wishes and best intentions of the American Founding Fathers.
So the Right that you have in the US is one that your Citizens have arrogated to yourselves in your Constitution — a wise move, one with considerable foresight.
Our Nation’s Citizens, for our own reasons, have not arrogated that Right to ourselves: we have yet to write a proper Constitution, for that matter. We are certainly free to do so, one day, should we so choose. For our own reasons, we haven’t yet chosen to. I wish we had. Maybe one day.
Are you saying God does not grant a right to self-defense, including a means to effectively defend yourself against those bigger, stronger or more-numerous than yourself?
> Are you saying God does not grant a right to self-defense, including a means to effectively defend yourself against those bigger, stronger or more-numerous than yourself?
I’ll answer your question with a question: can you please show me in the Bible where He does? I can certainly show you where His Son instructs His followers to “turn the other cheek”.
I believe that if you are to look for support for America’s “Right to keep and bear Arms”, you will not find it coming from God and recorded in the Bible.
It is, as I have said, a right that your Citizens have arrogated to themselves.
So you read right past this verse?
Luke 22:36 - Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
> So you read right past this verse?
No, but clearly you (like Simon Peter) take that verse literally. And like Simon Peter, you are wrong to do so.
So you’re saying it’s wrong to take that verse literally, but right to take the verse about “turning the other cheek” literally?
The issue may not be addressed directly in the Bible, but I have a hard time believing that the God who gives us life expects us to just give it away to anyone who wants to take it.
> So you’re saying it’s wrong to take that verse literally, but right to take the verse about “turning the other cheek” literally?
Yup, particularly as Christ later goes on to say “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were of this world then would my servants fight...” (St John 18:36)
> The issue may not be addressed directly in the Bible, but I have a hard time believing that the God who gives us life expects us to just give it away to anyone who wants to take it.
I believe that is one of the harder issues that we get to address as Christians. Here are my personal thoughts:
I was brought up in an environment that believed in Conscientious Objection. While I acknowledge that this stance is probably technically correct, I also recognize that we, as Christians, have to live in the real world and deal with real world problems, one of which being the fact that there are plenty of people out there who want to kill or otherwise harm us. Therefore there is a huge gap between ideal practise and practical living.
I admire Conscientious Objectors but I cannot live my life according to that path. I am a Sheepdog, and a part of a Sheepdog’s path is to protect the sheep from the wolves that surround them.
We aren’t always given situations where we get to choose between Good and Evil: sometimes we have to select from the lesser of two evils, and seek forgiveness for the choice that we have made.
Speaking personally, if my country is being invaded I would not think twice about defending it: doing so is the lesser of two evils. In the process I might well have to take life: that, too, is the lesser of two evils. In order to do that effectively, I would certainly need to train and practise in a structured military environment: that, too, is the lesser of two evils. And I would naturally have to do my very best, because doing anything less is to fail to Render Unto Caesar.
In a less dramatic context, it is much the same when I Patrol as a Guardian Angel. Somebody needs to interfere with the Bad Guys, and I volunteer to do so. I’d rather stay home and eat pizza and drink beer on rainy Friday nites, but that comes at the cost of having Bad Guys take over my neighborhood: something that is unacceptable at any level to my way of existence. I do not want my kids to grow up in a neighborhood where drug dealers and crooks run the show: to achieve that Citizens like me must stop them because nobody else will. To be sure, when interfering with Bad Guys and their nefarious deeds the prospect of violence is there and I do not look forward to that prospect. Indeed, I will do everything I can to avoid hitting a perpetrator, short of letting him hit me or anybody else — and so far I’ve been reasonably successful at doing this. But if push does come to shove my duty is clear and I know precisely what to do and how hard to hit and where. I won’t enjoy it, and when it’s all over and the perp is in cuffs I will administer first aid until the cops and ambulance arrive. And I’ll seek forgiveness afterwards.
If it were always possible to do the Right Thing it would be possible to be justified by works. But as Christians we know that this isn’t possible: instead we are expected to make the best choices we can, and know that we can be justified by faith if we seek forgiveness wherein we do sin.
That’s the best explanation I can give, anyrate.
You take that unsupported position only because you don’t believe the Bible is the Word of God.
I notice you didn’t offer any explanation for your disbelief, only a wild, unsubstantiated claim. But that, coming from a dedicated non-believer, has no standing, and no force whatsoever.
> You take that unsupported position only because you don’t believe the Bible is the Word of God.
See Post #74. And never put words into my mouth again.
> But that, coming from a dedicated non-believer, has no standing, and no force whatsoever.
Speak for yourself.
Correction: See Post #75. And never put words into my mouth again.
That this is the overriding SOP should have been obvious to the entire nation since Columbine. Anyone paying the slightest bit of attention saw it there, for sure.
If she is as smart as she sounds, she will be armed from now on.
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