Posted on 04/14/2009 8:51:10 AM PDT by presidio9
“If I have read and understood this correctly, it is OK to be Catholic and a Homosexual, both at the same time. True?”
An outisder here, but from the Jewish perspective, it depends if one defines “being gay” as:
(1) having unnatural sexual attraction to the same sex
-or-
(2) performing sex acts with those of the same sex.
Situation 1 is unfortunate handicap, but not inconsistent with being a good Jew (or, I presume, a good Roman Catholic), assuming no actual unnatural sex occurs.
Situation 2 IS inconsistent with being a good Jew (and, I presume, a good Roman Catholic).
A trickier issue is an attitude of rebellion -— as in, someone who thinks it’s “OK” to have unnatural attraction to the same sex, but does not act on it, because, well, the Rules are the Rules. A difficult connundrum, but, I’ve never seen it, and,candidly, doubt such a connundrum is possible, as those who reject the Law as silly, tend to act as such.
Having a proclivity toward same sex attraction is not the sin; acting on it is. There are many celibate practicing catholics in good standing. Attraction to the same sex is not a sin.
It is comparable to committing adultery. If you commit the act (even if you lust after a woman in your heart it is the same as committing adultery according to scripture)so it goes with being homosexual. Celibacy is required of homosexuals and single heterosexuals. It is chastity that is violated on both counts. You can be a practicing homosexual or a practicing catholic, but not both; same as being a practicing pro abortion advocate or practicing catholic. They are diametrically opposed, and one cannot be pro both sides of that coin.
They are looking for affirmation, acceptance, and permission to commit sin. It will not be given in the catholic church, and I have a feeling this will become more than crystal clear in the coming months.
(Disclaimer: this is my own thoughts and not reflective of any system of beliefs that I ascribe to.)
In the Garden of Eden, there were three stages of sin that Adam went through.
The first stage was that of giving in to temptation. This is something that all men do, but it easy to be repentant over and forgiveness is easy to find and accept. Adam ate the fruit when offered to him breaking God’s law and finding himself in sin.
The second stage was to avoid facing the sin. This is something that happens to most, if not all, people at some point in their lives. They push back their sin hoping that if they don’t face it, it will just go away. Adam hid from God and didn’t want to talk about it, thus seperating himself from God due to shame as well as sin.
The third stage was to refuse to take responsibility for sin. This is the action that removes us from Grace as a Christian and is based in pride. Adam challenged God by refusing to repent. He blamed others “this woman that you gave to me”, she blamed others “the serpant decieved me”, and though it isn’t in the written words, I can hear Adam blaming God himself “You put that tree there to begin with”. It was because Adam refused to take responsibility for his sin that he stepped beyond Grace and God seperated himself from Adam.
So the first stage of sin is falling to temptation and allowing sin to come between us and God.
The second stage of sin is falling to shame and hiding from God, letting sin and our own shame seperate us from God.
The third stage of sin is falling to pride and refusing to take responsibility for our sin, letting sin, shame and pride lead God to remove us from Grace.
The person who feels a draw to homosexual behavior must resist lest he fall to temptation. At this point, I have no problem with someone who struggles with homosexuality.
But so many people who struggle with this sin have clearly moved onto the avoidance of it, by claiming that it isn’t something they have to deal with it.
And the vast majority of homosexuals have moved into the third stage. They not only avoid talking about their behavior as sin, they are thumbing their nose at God saying that there is no sin there and if there is then the Church needs to change the rules for them.
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
__________________________
It seems pretty simple
1. Homosexuality is gravely depraved because it is contrary to natural law.
2. This disorder is a great trial for many and thus we should treat them with respect compassion and sensitivity.
3. Homosexuals are called to God’s will in their lives by practicing self-mastery of their inclinations and remain chastity.
You can certainly be “gay” and Catholic just as you can be a person who lusts and Catholic or just as you can be an addict and Catholic.
The key is, through God’s graces, self-master these tendencies and strive for Heaven.
This article is not a reliable analysis of Catholic doctrine.
Let's look closer at your own question:
"If I have read and understood this correctly, it is OK to be Catholic and a Homosexual, both at the same time. True?"
If "be homosexual" means "be a person who experiences same-sex attraction," true.
There are good Catholics who experience same-sex attraction--- rarely, occasionally, episodically, persistently, whatever --- but they do not "affirm" their confusions, and they shun sinful behavior. This is undoubtedly true even of some revered teachers and even canonized saints. Gerard Manley Hopkins, maybe? John Henry Newman, maybe?
HOWEVER.
If "be homosexual" means "willingly cooperates in same-sex fantasy, verbally supports same-sex erotic behavior, or in practice unrepentantly practices such behavior," the answer is no.
I hope I haven't made myself obscure. Unbidden feelings are not sins. Sometimes I feel as if I'd like to drink myself into oblivion. Sometimes I feel I could commit myriad unchaste acts. Sometimes I feel as if I could strangle certain FReepers. These feelings are flaws in my inner self, and if unresisted, they would be morally wrong; but if I do not cooperate with them, neither in thought, word, or deed, they are not sins.
If I love to fantisize about this stuff, defend it verbally, or worse yet act on it: there you go, that's sin.
And as Arthur McGowan says: at that point, get ye to the Confessional! Ask for grace to overcome these sad, bad, crazy or pathetic tendencies.
Everybody has some sinful tendencies. That's a consequence of Original Sin (the sin that happened near the origin of the human race) -- a flaw in our human nature.
Anybody here got flaws? Welcome to the club! That's why we need a Savior!
He’d have plenty of company, no doubt.
Are either one of you Catholic? I had 18 years of Catholic schooling. I have been an active member of 11 different parishes. In that time I have known and been friends with literally a couple of hundred priests. Of these, none were openly gay, and one or two might possibly have been gay. That is about the average for the general male population of this country. But feel free to just keep reinforcing the stereotype, if that's your plan.
This tolerance was abused over several past decades by certain factions within the church in order to enthusiastically recruit openly gay men as seminarians.
Previous regulations against the practice are now coming back, and Tough Tony Bevilacqua, Cardinal Archbishop of Philadelphia pointed out that straight men sacrifice something good when they enter the Roman priesthood, namely fatherhood and marriage. Celibate queers merely give up something intrinsically evil, which they are supposed to do anyway.
The Romans (Anglicans and Orthodox, too) have a long and uphill battle ahead of them, because the queers are firmly entrenched in their seminaries and no one knows exactly what to do with them. It will be a while before acolytes and choirboys are completely safe from clerical buggery.
Oh, how magnanimous his "forgiveness." What a pantload. What vocabulary would he have preferred, "abomination"?
The Church didn't have to "detail" its position for the previous two centuries, and neither did Jesus Christ himself, because it was clearly understood. Only after the ACLU, the birth control and abortion industries, and the Marxist takeover of the American Medical Association and the universities arose in the late 60s did the Church -- or any other group -- have to spell it out.
Good one.
Ouch! and Amen!
I'm a practicing Catholic. Practice makes perfect. Or rather, as my clarinet teacher once told 43 years ago, "Perfect practice makes perfect."
However, it is apostasy to celebrate sin.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apostasy
–noun, plural -sies.
a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party, cause, etc.
Origin:
1350–1400; ME apostasye
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.
n.
Abandonment of one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.
[Middle English apostasie, from Old French, from Late Latin apostasia, defection, from Late Greek apostasiā, from Greek apostasis, revolt, from aphistanai, aposta-, to revolt : apo-, apo- + histanai, to stand, place; see stā- in Indo-European roots.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved
noun
1. the state of having rejected your religious beliefs or your political party or a cause (often in favor of opposing beliefs or causes)
2. the act of abandoning a party for cause
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
"Catholic" is not an ethnicity. If you are not practicing, you are not Catholic.
So, thank you.
Pleased t'meet ya. Love your tagline, too.
If you’re declaring yourself “gay”, you can’t be Catholic, pal. Sorry.
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