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Possibility of Bio-Terrorism in Swine Flu Outbreak
April 25, 2007 | freedomfighter1013

Posted on 04/25/2009 5:51:39 AM PDT by FreedomFighter1013

In a discussion this morning with a cell biologist and medical doctor working at Johns Hopkins, my friend thought this 4-part flu combination is highly unusual and looks like it could be man-made. Especially because it has an avian strain. My doctor friend (he's Taiwanese) explained that in Asia, it's common for a avian-swine-human flu to happen naturally, but this virus first showed up in Mexico, where pigs and ducks are not usually raised together. Also, recombination of more than 2-different flu viruses is extremely rare. I'm just repeating what he said as an expert in the field. He says the CDC needs to explain if there is a possibility that we are under a bio-weapon attack.

From CDC via Wikipedia: Anne Schuchat, director of CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said that the American cases were found to be made up of genetic elements from four different flu viruses -- North American swine influenza, North American avian influenza, human influenza A virus subtype H1N1, and swine influenza virus typically found in Asia and Europe. For two cases a complete genome sequence had been obtained. She said that the virus was resistant to amantadine and rimantadine, but susceptible to oseltamivir (Tamiflu) and zanamivir (Relenza).[22][23][24] Preliminary genetic characterization found that the hemagglutinin (HA) gene was similar to that of swine flu viruses present in U.S. pigs since 1999, but the neuraminidase (NA) and matrix protein (M) genes resembled versions present in European swine flu isolates. Viruses with this genetic makeup had not previously been found to be circulating in humans or pigs, but there is no formal national surveillance system to determine what viruses are circulating in pigs in the U.S.[25] The seasonal influenza strain H1N1 vaccine is thought to be unlikely to provide protection.[26]


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bioterrorism; chat; flu; mexican; mexicanflu; notbreakingnews; outbreak; speculation; swine; swineflu; tm; virus
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1 posted on 04/25/2009 5:51:39 AM PDT by FreedomFighter1013
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Am I to understand this MAY be a combination of swine and avian flu? I’m not up on these various strains- but I don’t remember learning about a combination type. Odd.

Thanks for passing on your conversation.


2 posted on 04/25/2009 5:55:11 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Cue the movie “Twelve Monkeys.”


3 posted on 04/25/2009 5:56:17 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; F15Eagle; GOPJ; Munz; Quix; SandRat; SJackson; SolidWood

ping


4 posted on 04/25/2009 5:57:13 AM PDT by Perdogg (University of North Carolina - 2009 NCAA basketball champs)
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To: FreedomFighter1013; Black Agnes

Uh oh.


5 posted on 04/25/2009 5:57:15 AM PDT by Travis McGee ("Foreign Enemies And Traitors" will be ready the first week of May.)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Here’s more from AP via Seattle Post Intelligencer: http://www.seattlepi.com/health/1500ap_med_swine_flu.html?source=rss

The worrisome new virus - which combines genetic material from pigs, birds and humans in a way researchers have not seen before - also sickened at least eight people in Texas and California, though there have been no deaths in the U.S.

“We are very, very concerned,” World Health Organization spokesman Thomas Abraham said. “We have what appears to be a novel virus and it has spread from human to human ... It’s all hands on deck at the moment.”


6 posted on 04/25/2009 5:57:22 AM PDT by FreedomFighter1013 (Obama is Weakening America for Partisan Gain: That's Change For You)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Interesting perspective but it looks like there is only a 2% mortality rate so far. I would think a bio terrorist bug would kill more people. Unless of course this is just a test run.


7 posted on 04/25/2009 5:57:50 AM PDT by DogBarkTree (Support The American Tea Party)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

engineered

unless there is a plausible reason for it to appear in 4 different parts in Mexico among people with no known risk factors for exposure to combined livestock, and that it kills adults in prime age (such as military men)

or a lab screw up in testing a vaccine that was intended to protect against combined strains and had a live strain in it
?? live bird flu was “accidentally” sent out in a test vaccine by a lab in Austria this winter

The quickness of CDC to jump on this suggest incompetent alarmists at CDC or foreknowledge of a time bomb waiting to go off


8 posted on 04/25/2009 5:58:04 AM PDT by silverleaf (We live in interesting times: now the entire IRS works for a tax evader)
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To: FreedomFighter1013
“We are very, very concerned,” World Health Organization spokesman Thomas Abraham said. “We have what appears to be a novel virus and it has spread from human to human ... It’s all hands on deck at the moment.”

______________________________________________

WHO and CDC know more than they are saying.

9 posted on 04/25/2009 5:58:40 AM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: SE Mom

Probably a right-winged extremist plot. Waiting for those words from Mz. Napoliano at HLS to justify her recent rantings.


10 posted on 04/25/2009 5:58:59 AM PDT by not2worry (WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

This does look like a man-made pathogen...perhaps destined for our southern border?
Our crack DHS Sec. will probably be on CNN soon telling us there is absolutely no link to terrorists, and that will make everyone feel safe.


11 posted on 04/25/2009 5:59:09 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: FreedomFighter1013
It is a VERY unlikely bio-weapon because, as the article says, “[IT is] susceptible to oseltamivir (Tamiflu).

Lots of flu is resistant. If you wanted to kill people, the LAST thing you would do is engineer a strain susceptible to tamiflu.

12 posted on 04/25/2009 5:59:10 AM PDT by HospiceNurse
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To: FreedomFighter1013
I'm so glad we've closed the mexican borders. Wait...what's that you say? The borders remain open? Well, nevermind.


13 posted on 04/25/2009 6:01:08 AM PDT by newfreep ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." - P.J. O'Rourke)
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To: FreedomFighter1013; Rushmore Rocks

bump and ping

RR I’m off to work, keep me posted. I have a co-worker who has been rally sick like down in the bed all week. Scary!!


14 posted on 04/25/2009 6:01:11 AM PDT by WestCoastGal (If he wants to come by the bus after the race and get his a$$ whooped, I'll do it. - Dale Jr)
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To: FreedomFighter1013
The last thing that the Obama administration would ever allow would be the announcement that while the Bush Administration managed to stop numerous terrorist attacks on US soil, as well as foreign interests for nearly 8 years, the US was hit by a biological weapons attack withing Obama's first 100 days in office, especially after Obama announced all those policy changes to make the US more "terrorist friendly."

No, the only way that the admininstration will allow the words "biological terrorist attack" to be used would be if they can squarely rest the blame on the Bush administration.

Mark

15 posted on 04/25/2009 6:01:48 AM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: silverleaf
The quickness of CDC to jump on this suggest incompetent alarmists at CDC or foreknowledge of a time bomb waiting to go off.

I dont think its the first. Everyone has been watching the h5n1 for awhile and expecting something to happen at anytime. We will have to wait and see if this was enigneered or naturally occuring.

16 posted on 04/25/2009 6:02:02 AM PDT by Lady GOP
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Captain Trips...


17 posted on 04/25/2009 6:02:24 AM PDT by Allegra ( Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

And you have what kind of proof?? Nothing.


18 posted on 04/25/2009 6:03:46 AM PDT by truthandlife ("Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the LORD our God." (Ps 20:7))
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Didn’t know about the specific types, but yes, the possibility of bio terrorism was discussed here last night. Disperse it in Mexico or Central America where it won’t be detected too quickly. Let it spread there knowing that it would soon be brought across the border in no time. Spring being the perfect season with Americans going down to Mexico for Spring Break and vactions and illegals coming north for the planting season. We’ve already had confirmed cases in CA, AZ and TX and it’s in Canada. Yesterday, up in Queens, a private school had 75 students being tested.


19 posted on 04/25/2009 6:05:15 AM PDT by bgill (The evidence simply does not support the official position of the Obama administration)
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To: SE Mom
Am I to understand this MAY be a combination of swine and avian flu?

Even worse, per some talk radio commentaries: swine-avian-human flu mixture.

That makes it even more suspicious.
20 posted on 04/25/2009 6:05:21 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: FreedomFighter1013
Update: doctor friend also says that what is also unusual is that this type/combination virus is the based on the same strain as in the 1918 Spanish flu virus (H1N1) outbreak (extremely deadly, 25 million dead in 25 weeks; total dead 50-100 million dead; 2.5%-5% of the world population). This makes the virus extremely deadly. The likelihood that this combination with the most deadly strain would happen naturally is very, very low.
21 posted on 04/25/2009 6:06:10 AM PDT by FreedomFighter1013 (Obama is Weakening America for Partisan Gain: Change, Big-Time)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

From Reuters via Los Angeles Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-flu-box25-2009apr25,0,5114253.story

The CDC has analyzed samples of the H1N1 virus from some of the U.S. patients, all of whom have recovered, and said it is a never-before-seen mixture of viruses from swine, birds and humans.


22 posted on 04/25/2009 6:08:16 AM PDT by FreedomFighter1013 (Obama is Weakening America for Partisan Gain: Change, Big-Time)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Have you placed a call to Jack Bauer yet?


23 posted on 04/25/2009 6:08:18 AM PDT by verity ("Lord, what fools we mortals be!")
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To: FreedomFighter1013

I just found this article from 2005.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7515802/

Basically it says that a 2 kits containing flu virus were sent out to Mexico and lost. All the others were supposed to be destroyed. I dont think this is just coincidence at this point.


24 posted on 04/25/2009 6:08:48 AM PDT by Jessica2677 (Lets all stop paying taxes....change your deductions to EXEMPT!)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

I have been sick going on 7 weeks now (already whined on another thread-thought it was only 6 weeks and realized next week will be 8 WEEKS!!) and it’s like I’ve had all different bugs. I have NEVER been this sick in my life.

Extremely high fever, feel like I can’t breathe and I still have the nagging cough. Had the stomach part first then it has attacked every part of my upper resp. tract-almost weekly. It is the weirdest “flu” I have ever had.

I live in CT, but ended up in an ER in Raleigh NC(where I went to take care of my sister & kids because she was in the hospital w/a stomach bug as she has IBS problems)-HE had it and he said they had no idea what it was -”maybe a new strain” because nothing worked on it. And the fatigue with it is AWFUL. That was the worst for him. I couldn’t stand the feeling like I couldn’t breathe. That’s why I went to the ER, but my O2 level was fine.
So, these days, ANYTHING is possible. It is a very nasty, nasty “bug”.


25 posted on 04/25/2009 6:09:10 AM PDT by homegroan (Proud to be a Palinite!)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Would you say who the source (Taiwanese doctor) for these claims is?


26 posted on 04/25/2009 6:09:27 AM PDT by SolidWood (Palin: "We do not want to becomes slaves of Washington.")
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To: FreedomFighter1013

FoxNews reports:

62 dead, 1000 sick due to the flu in Mexico.

Stadiums and similar gathering places have been closed.


27 posted on 04/25/2009 6:09:37 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Travis McGee

Drug cartels are at war with the Mexican government.
They have money to buy something like this.


28 posted on 04/25/2009 6:09:49 AM PDT by Cold Heart
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To: HospiceNurse

and how much tamiflu is available (especially in Mexico and the rest of the 3rd world)

and who gets it when it is rationed?

govt officials? Their families? Only people in a certain age group? AIDS/HIV community? Seniors in nursing homes? School kids? Americans? or 3rd world? People who have the flu already? or people who don’t have the flu yet?

Imagine the decisionmmaking and the triage operation in your own community

you want social crisis?


29 posted on 04/25/2009 6:10:04 AM PDT by silverleaf (We live in interesting times: now the entire IRS works for a tax evader)
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To: DogBarkTree
Interesting perspective but it looks like there is only a 2% mortality rate so far

Well, with a U.S. population of 300,000,000 that comes to 6,000,000 dead. And I think the mortality rate is more like 7%, if the numbers of over a thousand infected with 68 deaths, is correct. It's definitely something to watch.
30 posted on 04/25/2009 6:10:14 AM PDT by ZX12R
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Chinese bioweapon meant to be released until we pay off our debt? But released in Mexico to make it look like a natural outbreak (and thus enter the US through illegal immigrants)?


31 posted on 04/25/2009 6:11:03 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (I'm learning Arabic, Farsi, Urdu, Pashtu, and Russian so someday you won't have to)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Just heard on Fox 60 dead out of 1000 infected. Looks like the mortality rate is 6% not 2%. Hmmmm.


32 posted on 04/25/2009 6:11:31 AM PDT by DogBarkTree (Support The American Tea Party)
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To: Jessica2677

Lovely

live viruses sent to labs in Mexico and LEBANON and never received or accounted for

How long before this shows up in Israel


33 posted on 04/25/2009 6:13:33 AM PDT by silverleaf (We live in interesting times: now the entire IRS works for a tax evader)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

34 posted on 04/25/2009 6:14:25 AM PDT by truthandlife ("Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the LORD our God." (Ps 20:7))
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To: justsaynomore

Bump/Ping


35 posted on 04/25/2009 6:15:31 AM PDT by Tucker822
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To: Cold Heart
Buy what? Employ scientists or buy the components to experiment(which Mexican narcogangsters can't)?

If this is man-made, it has to be from professional labs with first rate scientists in a country with the ressources and brainpower to do it (or rogue scientists in such a country).

It can hardly be from some podunk backwater country.

36 posted on 04/25/2009 6:15:48 AM PDT by SolidWood (Palin: "We do not want to becomes slaves of Washington.")
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To: not2worry

Really- I hate to imagine her in charge of a REAL disaster- man-made or otherwise.


37 posted on 04/25/2009 6:16:03 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: Jessica2677
I dont think this is just coincidence at this point.

Any time I read or hear of any thing suspicious, related to chemical or biological, I think of all those scientists and medical personnel who have died under mysterious circumstances since 2001. The last list I saw had a number in the 70s range.
38 posted on 04/25/2009 6:16:32 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: FreedomFighter1013
Living on a boarder city that was my FIRST thought as well. With Mexico and it's horrendous problems it is a perfect target for the RELIGION OF PIECES to spread their LOVE to Americans through the open lax border problem. Pray for us folks who have no other choice but live in these stinking cities! I wonder if the BLACK messiah will make the virus go away magically? Pfttt!
39 posted on 04/25/2009 6:18:11 AM PDT by RoseofTexas
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To: homegroan

What I meant to say-sorry,still on Mucinex DM-is that the nurse in the ER-he had it as well-after examining me etc., said “welcome to the Club” and went on tell me they think it’s a new strain and had no idea what it was etc. But it was very bad. And the ER was PACKED with people. And it’s NEVER like that he told me-it was Easter Saturday and he told me they had run out of beds and had to use the other part of the ER/Clinic, where they see serious injuries like car accidents, gunshot stuff etc.
It feels like you have pnuemonia-you just feel like you’re dying!The sweating/fever is unreal. My hair was soaked. My sister had the stomach part real bad and I had the respiratory part really bad. But you get both. It’s crazy.


40 posted on 04/25/2009 6:19:11 AM PDT by homegroan (Proud to be a Palinite!)
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To: RoseofTexas

Ooops...meant border..more coffee plezzzzz!


41 posted on 04/25/2009 6:20:41 AM PDT by RoseofTexas
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To: RoseofTexas
I think Michael Savage yesterday questioned the possibility of the Swine Flu as man-made.
42 posted on 04/25/2009 6:21:13 AM PDT by Tamatoa (Fight for our America, Fight for our Country I fought to defend!!!)
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To: HospiceNurse
Not really, the creators may be betting that this highly deadly strain further mutates. According to my Doctor source from JHU, it is not necessary to do it in the lab, when nature gets hold of it the virus evolves on its own, it can become very deadly. According to, the natural mutation rate of Influenza virus is 1.5 *10^(-5) per nucleotide per infectious cycle (each individual replication within the cell). That means each of the millions of cells in one body that becomes infected will be mutated at a rate of 1.5 *10^(-5) (10^(-5) = 1.5/10,000) From the Journal of Virology: http://jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/59/2/377
43 posted on 04/25/2009 6:21:27 AM PDT by FreedomFighter1013 (Obama is Weakening America for Partisan Gain: Change, Big-Time)
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To: Truth29

I saw that movie “Twelve Monkeys” in a big movie theater. Do not understand what people later saw in it. The crowd in the theater didn’t seem too impressed.

I never was.

Anyway, cue the pigs. lol


44 posted on 04/25/2009 6:21:59 AM PDT by romanesq
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To: truthandlife

I hope your dismissive response is justified. If not you may regret thinking this is all chicken little.


45 posted on 04/25/2009 6:22:06 AM PDT by DogBarkTree (Support The American Tea Party)
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To: silverleaf

I’ve read there are about 2.5M Tamiflu doses stockpiled in USA. Numbers probably much lower in Mexico, if any.

However, first world health care is likely to greatly reduce the death rate just through supportive care even in absence of an effective treatment. In extreme cases, unfortunately, this is likely to require ICU treatment and there is a strictly limited number of those beds.

If we get slammed with a major flu pandemic, things will get nasty quickly. We aren’t even close to being prepared. There is no way we will be able to provide state of the art medical treatment to all who need it, which promptly gets us into “who decides?” territory. In today’s world, this will immediately become a political and liability issue.


46 posted on 04/25/2009 6:22:22 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Everyone has a right to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.)
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To: silverleaf

Tamiflu is only effective within the first 24-73 hours, per a CDC spokeslady I heard on the radio yesterday afternoon.


47 posted on 04/25/2009 6:23:38 AM PDT by ecomcon
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To: TomGuy

Whoa...that IS strange.

It seems peculiar it’s breaking out in April- flu “season” is fall/winter.


48 posted on 04/25/2009 6:23:44 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: FreedomFighter1013
More from Reuters: (CDC acting director Dr. Richard Besser) Besser said the CDC is being “very aggressive” said it was time for people in the United States to think about what to do if this does turn out to be a pandemic.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE53O0MW20090425

49 posted on 04/25/2009 6:25:05 AM PDT by FreedomFighter1013 (Obama is Weakening America for Partisan Gain: Change, Big-Time)
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To: Cindy

ping


50 posted on 04/25/2009 6:25:20 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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