Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Fichori

Fichori,
I think the main thing is that we do not know everything. But assuming that it was 6 days, and I believe it was, understanding verses 1 and 2 to happen before the 6 days is within the language used.

Here is some commentary from Bible scholars that I think you will find interesting.

1:1-2. These verses have traditionally been understood as referring to the actual beginning of matter, a Creation out of nothing and therefore part of day one.

But the vocabulary and grammar of this section require a closer look. The motifs and the structure of the Creation account are introduced in the first two verses. That the universe is God’s creative work is perfectly expressed by the statement God created the heavens and the earth. The word (“created”) may express creation out of nothing, but it certainly cannot be limited to that (cf. 2:7).
Rather, it stresses that what was formed was new and perfect. The word is used throughout the Bible only with God as its subject.

But 1:2 describes a chaos: there was waste and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. The clauses in verse 2 are apparently circumstantial to verse 3, telling the world’s condition when God began to renovate it. It was a chaos of wasteness, emptiness, and darkness. Such conditions would not result from God’s creative work ; rather, in the Bible they are symptomatic of sin and are coordinate with judgment.

Moreover, God’s Creation by decree begins in verse 3, and the elements found in verse 2 are corrected in Creation, beginning with light to dispel the darkness. The expression formless and empty seems also to provide an outline for chapter 1, which describes God’s bringing shape and then fullness to the formless and empty earth.

Some have seen a middle stage of Creation here, that is, an unfinished work of Creation (v. 2) that was later developed (vv. 3-25) into the present form. But this cannot be sustained by the syntax or the vocabulary.

Others have seen a “gap” between the first two verses, allowing for the fall of Satan and entrance of sin into the world that caused the chaos. It is more likely that verse 1 refers to a relative beginning rather than the absolute beginning (Merrill F. Unger, Unger’s Commentary on the Old Testament. 2 vols. Chicago: Moody Press, 1981, 1:5). The chapter would then be accounting for the Creation of the universe as man knows it, not the beginning of everything, and verses 1-2 would provide the introduction to it. The fall of Satan and entrance of sin into God’s original Creation would precede this.
~~~~~~

It is for reasons like that I think many young earth creationists proclaim more than we actually know. It is enough for me to know HE created the world - and that in 6 days - my faith doesn’t rest on any more than that.

Best to you,
ampu


107 posted on 05/11/2009 12:35:45 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I, El Rushbo -- and I say this happily -- have hijacked Obama's honeymoon.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies ]


To: aMorePerfectUnion

Wisdom from J. Vernon McGhee

“It still makes more sense to me to read: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” Who created the universe? God did. He created it out of nothing. When? I don’t know, and nobody else knows. Some men say one billion years ago, some say two billion, and now some say five billion. I personally suspect that they all are pikers. I think it was created long before that.

My friend, we need to keep in mind that God has eternity behind Him. What do you think He has been doing during all the billions of years of the past? Waiting for you and me to come on the scene? No, He has been busy. He has had this creation a long time to work with. You see, He really has not told us very much, has He? It is presumptuous of little man down here on earth to claim to know more than he really knows.

You cannot put one little star in motion;
You cannot shape one single forest leaf,
Nor fling a mountain up, nor sink an ocean,
Presumptuous pigmy, large with unbelief!
You cannot bring one dawn of regal splendor,
Nor bid the day to shadowy twilight fall,
Nor send the pale moon forth with radiance tender;
And dare you doubt the One who has done it all?

- Sherman A. Nagel, Sr.

“It behooves us to just accept that majestic statement which opens the Word of God: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” And with the psalmist let us consider His heavens, the work of His fingers, the moon and the stars, which He hast ordained (Ps. 8:3) and realize that “the heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handiwork” (Ps. 19:1).


108 posted on 05/11/2009 12:56:44 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I, El Rushbo -- and I say this happily -- have hijacked Obama's honeymoon.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies ]

To: aMorePerfectUnion
“But 1:2 describes a chaos: there was waste and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. The clauses in verse 2 are apparently circumstantial to verse 3, telling the world’s condition when God began to renovate it. It was a chaos of wasteness, emptiness, and darkness. Such conditions would not result from God’s creative work ; rather, in the Bible they are symptomatic of sin and are coordinate with judgment.” [excerpt]
Uh, thats a bit out there.

You might be interested in this. (deals with semantics)

“It is for reasons like that I think many young earth creationists proclaim more than we actually know. It is enough for me to know HE created the world - and that in 6 days - my faith doesn’t rest on any more than that.” [excerpt]
I agree, people do have a tendency to run with the bit when it comes to Genesis 1:1,2

All I was pointing out was that God's creative act as clearly spelled out by God himself, took, from start to finish, six days.

To date, all the undefined long periods of time that hover around verses 1 & 2 that I have seen, are circumstantial inferences at best. (ie, not sound exegesis)


Regarding your J. Vernon McGhee quote, how is it possible for God who is outside of time, to be busy?

Something doesn't add...
109 posted on 05/11/2009 1:31:49 PM PDT by Fichori (The only bailout I'm interested in is the one where the entire Democrat party leaves the county)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies ]

To: aMorePerfectUnion
But 1:2 describes a chaos: there was waste and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. The clauses in verse 2 are apparently circumstantial to verse 3, telling the world’s condition when God began to renovate it. It was a chaos of wasteness, emptiness, and darkness. Such conditions would not result from God’s creative work ; rather, in the Bible they are symptomatic of sin and are coordinate with judgment.

I'm not sure I agree with this. "Without form, and void" are certainly within the parameters of the definitions for the Hebrew words which exist in the text of Genesis, and though I agree that one could interpret them as describing a type of chaos, and thus transition for the earth itself, there is nothing to suggest, in the remaining lines of Genesis 1:2, that this chaotic condition, or desolation, extends to the rest of the universe, which it would need to for the theory to make sense. Darkness does not suggest chaos in and of itself, and again, there is nothing in the text to suggest that this darkness was transitional, rather than primary.

This is an important point because, if Genesis 1:1-2 is indeed an act of creation, rather than a prelude, then one must account for this transition not only of the earth, but of the heavens also, otherwise, you have God creating the universe twice for no apparent reason...once in Genesis 1:1, and again in the chronology of creation to follow.

It could be that Genesis 1:2, as a prelude, simply describes the earth as without form/shape or substance, i.e., it simply didn't exist in physical terms.

Another thing to consider is that if this desolation did indeed occur, then it is unlikely that we would have any evidence at all of anything that existed prior to this, so the argument that the fossil record is an indication of this earlier age is extremely tenuous.

Mind you, this is just my opinion on the matter as stands right now.....

116 posted on 05/11/2009 2:30:32 PM PDT by csense
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies ]

To: aMorePerfectUnion; Fichori

Here is a big problem for your theory:

If it were as you say, it would not have been dark. After the expansion of creation, the universe became a place of much light. All of the major bodies emitted bright light.

This is the point that The Lord was saying “Let there be light.”


121 posted on 05/11/2009 6:56:36 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson