How Did Government Get So Involved in Education?

The Case for Separation ^

[Pessimist]

Great post!

[Deagle]

The short answer is that involvement in education is the desired result of all that want control of future generations. This has been going on for decades now and the final results are just starting to be understood. (Only by those that actually care it seems...).

Sometimes I wonder just when the desired results of today actually started. Dumb down the public (through public schools) and then start the revolution (wrong kind)... I’m not actually a conspiracy nut (yet), but really starting to wonder what the hell is going on...

[Red_Devil 232]

You could have answered the question - both the short and long answers with one word.

UNIONS

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

Even Mises opposed "open borders" -

"These considerations are not a plea for opening America and the British Dominions to German, Italian, and Japanese immigrants. Under present conditions America and Australia would simply commit suicide by admitting Nazis, Fascists, and Japanese. They could as well surrender directly to the Fűhrer and to the Mikado. Immigrants from the totalitarian countries are today the vanguard of their armies, a fifth column whose invasion would render all measures of defense useless. America and Australia can preserve their freedom, their civilization, and their economic institutions only by rigidly barring access to the subjects of the dictators."--Mises

A Libertarian Argument against Open borders

[ansel12]

You can pretend that libertarians are against open borders, libertarians do a lot of that kind of switch and bait but they are now and always have been for totally open borders.

Here is the wording from the 2004 Party Platform

Libertarian Party Platform 2004:

Immigration
The Issue: We welcome all refugees to our country and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new "Berlin Wall" which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. government's policy of barring those refugees from our country and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects.

Transitional Action: We call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.

[bamahead]

Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!
(View past Libertarian pings here)

[ansel12]

Amazing, that link you posted takes one to a FR thread with five posters on it that evidently did not think to look at the party platform.

Out of those five posters, 3 of them have been banned, including the guy that posted the thread.

[The Californian]

bttt

[mick]

Good post ping!

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

"As to why I think libertarians are nuts to favor mass uncontrolled immigration from the third world: I think they are nuts because their enthusiasm on this matter is suicidal to their cause. Their ideological passion is blinding them to a rather obvious fact: that libertarianism is a peculiarly American doctrine, with very little appeal to the huddled masses of the third world. If libertarianism implies mass third-world immigration, then it is self-destroying. Libertarianism is simply not attractive either to illiterate peasants from mercantilist Latin American states, or to East Asians with traditions of imperial-bureaucratic paternalism, or to the products of Middle Eastern Muslim theocracies."--John Derbyshire

Closing the open door

Let me caution you...don't say "I'm pretending" when I made it clear there are different strains of libertarianism and I'm simply stating the fact some libertarians oppose open borders and some are fully in support of open borders like the Cato Institute. I would point out that they did change the Libertarian Platform 2006 on immigration: Ensure immigration requirements include only appropriate documentation, screening for criminal background and threats to public health and national security. Simplifying the immigration process and redeployment of surveillance technology to focus on the borders will encourage the use of regular and monitored entry points, thus preventing trespass and saving lives. End federal requirements that benefits and services be provided to those in the country illegally. Repeal all measures that punish employers for hiring undocumented workers. Repeal all immigration quotas.

[yorkie]

I am pinging myself to this link for further research and study - but it won’t be because of your “libertarian Party Platform ping”

[ansel12]

"I would point out that they did change the Libertarian Platform 2006 on immigration: Ensure immigration requirements include only appropriate documentation, screening for criminal background and threats to public health and national security."

All they did was conceal some of their agenda and soften the language so that it would give more wiggle room on forums and when trying to win converts.

After using clear language for so many years this is how they word it in the 2008 platform. Using the smoke screen of being able to stop an individual as an argument that they don't support totally open borders.

Immigration: 3.4 Free Trade and Migration

"We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a threat to security, health or property.

[ansel12]

I didn’t ping anyone, I was quoting his ping.

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

I'm really getting tired of this - on this thread about "What happened to abolishing the Department of Education?" ... I had to take issue with GovernmentShrinker trying to blame social conservatism for big government and now you are are trying to create a false dispute on this thread that ignores my views, which if you bothered to ask about...on immigration are close to those of Pat Buchanan or Joseph Farah...and the real split between libertarians...all of which is off the topic of the government and whether "How Did Government Get So Involved in Education?"

[ansel12]

I'm really getting tired of this -

Wow, you posted at me, I didn't post to you until your second post to me.

[Talisker]

Wow - GREAT post!

[Talisker]

Out of those five posters, 3 of them have been banned, including the guy that posted the thread.

Not only that, but if you add up the first letters of each alternate word, it spells "Paul is dead."

Get lost, straw man.

[ansel12]

Get lost yourself, three out of five posters banned on an irrelevant four year old thread that someone linked me to was worth commenting on.

[aruanan]

How Did Government Get So Involved in Education?

See this link for a good description of how this happened: The Graves of Academe by Richard Mitchell. This is a book that is more relevant each year that passes. And it's all available for free online.

Why can't our nation
read, write, cipher or THINK?
The Underground Grammarian takes on
the American Educational Establishment.

Praised by critics across the nation, The Graves of Academe is Richard Mitchell's angry and brilliant tour through America's bloated public school system--whose mangled, self-serving language and policies would make Orwell wince. Stamped with vintage Mitchell wit and laced with stinging examples from The Underground Grammarian, The Graves of Academe pinpoints the historic sources of the mind-boggling "educationist" bureaucracy and reveals why today's schools are riddled not only with illiterate students but with illiterate teachers and administrators as well.

"Richard Mitchell has done it again. He has loosed his noble lance of hate, fury and wit against the malignant stupidities that infest the world of education. . . . His book should be read by everyone who detests stupidity and who admires that rare virtue called common sense." --Howard Fast

[yorkie]

"Libertarian Party Platform:

Throw open the borders completely; only a rare individual (terrorist, disease carrier etc.) can be kept from freedom of movement through “political borders”.

Homosexuals; total freedom in the military, gay marriage, adoption, child custody and everything else.

Abortion; zero restrictions or impediments.

Pornography; no restraint, no restrictions.

Drugs; Meth, Heroin, Crack, anything new that science can come up with, zero restrictions.

Advertising drugs, prostitution, pornography; zero restrictions.

Military Strength; minimal capabilities."

Not one of the above was posted in #4's post.