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To: MadIsh32
Not really, but thanks for telling me what Muslims think.

I don't claim to know what you and the Muslims you generally hang out with think.

I am aware of what the Qur'an and Hadith say about what Muslims are supposed to think, having read the Quran in it's entirety, along with large chunks of the Hadith (sayings of Mohammad, available online here from the Muslim Student Association). I also own and have read the English translation of Reliance of the Traveler, the 14th century manual of Islamic jurisprudence. Additionally, I skim some Islamic sites from time to time.

If we can agree that an "orthodox Muslim" is somebody who believes that the Qur'an is the literal word of Allah as revealed to Muhammad, and that what is dictated in the Qur'an is to be followed by believing Muslims, and that Muhammad is a prophet whose life and actions are to serve as a guide for how Muslims should behave, then certain things follow.

For example: Hadith Volume 4, Book 53, Number 352: :

Allah's Apostle said, "Allah guarantees him who strives in His Cause and whose motivation for going out is nothing but Jihad in His Cause and belief in His Word, that He will admit him into Paradise (if martyred) or bring him back to his dwelling place, whence he has come out, with what he gains of reward and booty."
And Qur'an 9.111:
Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.
As far a Muhammad is concerned, in Qur'an 33.21:
Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
So anybody believing in the Qur'an MUST consider the examples of Muhammad to be the standard for how he is to conduct himself. And Muhammad conquered, killed and pillaged his way to power.

I grant that there are people who can choose to pick selected bits out of the Qur'an and call that Islam, but the orthodox Muslims will not consider them real Muslims.

150 posted on 05/21/2009 10:59:31 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money -- Thatcher)
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To: PapaBear3625

Fair enough point. It is defining who is “orthodox” and who is Taliban. From my experience, there is quite a difference between Orthodox and Talibanized Muslims.


154 posted on 05/21/2009 11:27:29 AM PDT by MadIsh32 (The token Muslim :))
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