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Banning the pickup truck
Las Vegas Review-Journal ^ | 21 may 09

Posted on 05/21/2009 3:57:09 AM PDT by rellimpank

The Tuesday headline was clear: "Obama's new rules will transform U.S. auto fleet."

The Associated Press picked it up from there: "Some soccer moms will have to give up hulking SUVs. Nearly everybody else will drive smaller cars, and more of them will run on electricity. The higher mileage and emissions standards set by the Obama administration on Tuesday, which begin to take effect in 2012 and are to be achieved by 2016, will transform the American car and truck fleet.

"The new rules would bring new cars and trucks sold in the United States to an average of 35.5 miles per gallon, about 10 mpg more than today's standards. Passenger cars will be required to get 39 mpg, light trucks 30 mpg. That means cars and trucks on American roads will have to become smaller, lighter and more efficient."

Eric Fedewa, vice president of global powertrain forecasting for an auto consulting firm, told The AP the changes will make pickup trucks so much more expensive that they'll be used almost exclusively for work.

Oh, heavens. We're growing faint.

The wise and powerful wizard Obama, having loaned taxpayer money to Detroit to "bail them out" -- thus avoiding simple bankruptcy, where the firms might have shed their overly costly union contracts and emerged to renewed profitability -- now simply decrees what kind of cars Detroit will make. He might as well just put Howard Waxman, Charlie Rangel and Barney Frank in the executive offices at the Big Three, in fedoras and double-breasted striped zoot suits like Ayn Rand's Wesley Mouch, Cuffy Meigs, and Emma Chalmers, and have done with it.

(Excerpt) Read more at lvrj.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 0bama; 0bamaisfailing; 4wd4me; 65grendel; atlasshrugged; autoindustry; bigteapartyjuly4; buygoldnow; buygunsnow; co2isnotpollution; democrats; drillheredrillnow; givemeliberty; globalcooling; idiocracy; ilikev8s; keepthechange; livefreeordie; newnuclearnow; obama; polarbearrugsrock; seaiceisfine; socialistblitzkrieg; takebackamerica; theoceanisntrising; time2partyagain; time4newcarcompany; usedcarsrock
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1 posted on 05/21/2009 3:57:10 AM PDT by rellimpank
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To: rellimpank

Just wait until the SUV’s and trucks are banned because they are a danger to the smaller, lighter cars.


2 posted on 05/21/2009 3:58:20 AM PDT by autumnraine (Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose- Kris Kristoferrson)
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To: rellimpank

Obama Nails the Coffin Shut (on automakers)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2254607/posts

By Car Guy Eric Peters on 5.20.09

Can you hear that? It’s the sound of the final nail being hammered down onto the coffin lid of the U.S. car industry.

President Obama wields the hammer — in the form of a massive uptick in federally required fuel economy standards that will require each automaker’s lineup of new vehicles to achieve an average of 35.5 MPG by 2016.

But what could be so bad about forcing the automakers to make cars more fuel efficient? Dig deeper and you’ll see.

Even the Obama people concede the new mileage standards will cost American consumers about $1,600 per vehicle by 2016 — in effect, a massive tax increase in the middle of a neo-Depression. The difference is this tax increase will be optional. People can avoid it by avoiding new cars — which will make it that much harder for the car industry to recover from the catastrophic state it finds itself in right now, with sales down anywhere from 30-50 percent depending on the make.

Pure genius!

Boosters of the 35.5 MPG standard talk up the fuel savings (current cars must meet a 27.5 MPG average), but if the car costs $1,600 more to buy, the roughly 8 MPG uptick is probably a net wash, at least until the car is several years old and the fuel savings amortizes the considerably higher up front costs. Obama and Co. are millionaires, so this is small potatoes from their point-of-view. But ask most Americans whether they think $1,600 is chump change.

But all this is secondary. The real killing aspect of CAFE (the federal government’s cutesy acronym for the fuel economy standards) is that it will mean the summary execution of perhaps one-third to one-half of all the vehicles in GM, Ford, and Chrysler’s product lineups — including the best-selling and most profitable models, virtually none of which achieve close to 35.5 MPG.

The law doesn’t say an automaker can’t continue producing cars that don’t meet the 35.5 MPG cut. But it does impose “gas guzzler” fines on any automaker (and individual car) that doesn’t. And since the fuel economy standards represent average mileage — the presence of just one “gas guzzler” has the same effect on an automaker’s overall CAFE ratings as a D- has on a high-schooler’s overall GPA.

That means automakers (and not just American ones — Toyota makes many “gas pigs,” too) will be under tremendous pressure to cancel countless models — including models just now coming to market (or soon to be here) that represent huge sums of money in the form of R&D, tooling, assembly lines and so on.

The 2010 Chevy Camaro is one example.

Say sayonara.

Normally, the huge investments in the development of new car lines would be amortized over the life cycle of the car “platform” — which is typically 5-8 years, on average. But at the stroke of Obama’s pen, a vast fleet of barely-born cars will be rendered economically untenable. All the money poured into them will be flushed straight down the pipes — adding to the vast ocean of red ink that’s already sloshing around.

The industry can only take so many hits below the waterline. This might be the coupe de grace. And if it’s not, the 35.5 MPG’s follow-up will definitely do the job.

Obama also wants to cut new car “emissions” by another 30 percent. Sounds good — except that it’s a hugely dishonest number.

Most people innocently assume “cutting by 30 percent” represents a substantial cut.

In reality, all 2009 and newer cars are already virtually pollution-free in terms of their exhaust emissions.

Literally 98 percent of the gases coming out of the tailpipe are just water vapor and carbon dioxide. Only about 2 percent constitutes “emissions” — things like carbon monoxide and the remains of incomplete combustion (unburned hydrocarbons).

It is this remaining 2 percent that Obama wants to cut by 30 percent. Work that out. The number is very small.

But the cost will not be. These minor, incremental “improvements” in exhaust emissions grow increasingly expensive. It is the law of diminishing returns.

The majority of the “easy” improvements/reductions have already been achieved. Getting at that last 1-2 percent will involved Herculean effort and huge sums — and probably will never fully be realized since the act of internal combustion necessarily is going to produce some unhelpful byproducts, however minor, no matter what we do.

The question is — or ought to be — is it worth it to kill the industry in the process of going after these final few vapors like a latter-day Inspector Javert?

Obama shows his ignorance of both economics and engineering by these potentially devastating diktats.

If he really wanted to improve the fuel efficiency of new cars without killing off the car industry in the process, all he’d need to do is rescind federal bumper-impact standards, which have increased the curb weight of the average new “economy” car to around 2,500 pounds (vs. around 2,000 lbs. 20 years ago).

Cars that weigh less burn less fuel. They cost less, too. In the ‘80s, there were dozens of cars that got 40 mpg.

Today, only one or two achieve that mark — despite all the technical advancements of the past quarter century — because they are so much heavier, courtesy of the federal government.

Would lighter cars be less “safe”? Maybe. It depends, for one thing, on whether you have a major accident. Most of us don’t. Maybe we’d like to exchange the very real, everyday advantage of 40-plus MPG (probably 50-plus, given modern engine management technology) for the hypothetical advantage of a “safer” car weighed down by government-required argle bargle.

Shouldn’t it be our choice?

Apparently, not. The Great Engineers in DC know best. And they’re not stupid enough to let a good crisis go by unexploited.

But they won’t pay the price. The car industry will. And then, so will we.

Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive Atrocities: The Cars You Love to Hate (Motor Books International).
http://spectator.org/archives/2009/05/20/obama-nails-the-coffin-shut


3 posted on 05/21/2009 4:01:18 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Conservatism is about freedom, and fighting people who want to take it away." Rush Limbaugh)
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To: rellimpank

Obama promised to help fix the auto industry, and maybe this is his plan.

Tell Americans that just about all of their cars, trucks, and SUVs will no longer be available and they’ll run out and buy the last new ones around (like light bulbs). It’s working with me. I’m about to buy a large SUV that I have absolutely no use for...but may later on, and I figure it will now keep its value a lot better than my savings.


4 posted on 05/21/2009 4:02:25 AM PDT by BobL (Drop a comment: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2180357/posts)
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To: rellimpank

I ain’t givin’ up my F-150! That’s why there’s a gun rack on the back window.


5 posted on 05/21/2009 4:02:29 AM PDT by junkman_106 (The ACLU can have arial intercourse with a rotating glazed pastry!)
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Chrysler Dealers to Challenge Shutdown
UAW Reluctant to Take the Wheel at GM, Chrysler
Heritage on the Looming Battle Over the Energy Bill

And more, here: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.guest.html

<>

Dodge Dealer begs: “I beseech your help” (See “comments” at end of article below)

May 19, 2009
Letter from a Dodge dealer

letter to the editor
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/05/letter_from_a_dodge_dealer.html

My name is George C. Joseph. I am the sole owner of Sunshine Dodge-Isuzu, a family owned and operated business in Melbourne, Florida.

My family bought and paid for this automobile franchise 35 years ago in 1974. I am the second generation to manage this business.

We currently employ 50+ people and before the economic slowdown we employed over 70 local people. We are active in the community and the local chamber of commerce. We deal with several dozen local vendors on a day to day basis and many more during a month. All depend on our business for part of their livelihood. We are financially strong with great respect in the market place and community. We have strong local presence and stability.

I work every day the store is open, nine to ten hours a day. I know most of our customers and all our employees. Sunshine Dodge is my life.

On Thursday, May 14, 2009 I was notified that my Dodge franchise, that we purchased, will be taken away from my family on June 9, 2009 without compensation and given to another dealer at no cost to them. My new vehicle inventory consists of 125 vehicles with a financed balance of 3 million dollars. This inventory becomes impossible to sell with no factory incentives beyond June 9, 2009. Without the Dodge franchise we can no longer sell a new Dodge as “new,” nor will we be able to do any warranty service work. Additionally, my Dodge parts inventory, (approximately $300,000.) is virtually worthless without the ability to perform warranty service. There is no offer from Chrysler to buy back the vehicles or parts inventory.

Our facility was recently totally renovated at Chrysler’s insistence, incurring a multi-million dollar debt in the form of a mortgage at Sun Trust Bank.

HOW IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA CAN THIS HAPPEN?

THIS IS A PRIVATE BUSINESS NOT A GOVERNMENT ENTITY

This is beyond imagination! My business is being stolen from me through NO FAULT OF OUR OWN. We did NOTHING wrong.

This atrocity will most likely force my family into bankruptcy. This will also cause our 50+ employees to be unemployed. How will they provide for their families? This is a total economic disaster.

HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN IN A FREE MARKET ECONOMY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

I beseech your help, and look forward to your reply. Thank you.

Sincerely,

George C. Joseph
President & Owner
Sunshine Dodge-Isuzu

There are 233 comments to this letter to the editor so far. Here is one of them:

“Two things are extremely unfortunate about this letter. First, the fact that Mr. Joseph and his family will be forced into bankruptcy and lose their ability to operate their business, feed their families and provide an opportunity for 50 other families is certainly a tragedy. Second, the fact that Mr. Joseph is operating under the delusion that we are operating under a “free market economy”. Mr. Joseph and his family and his business are among the first casualties of the Marxist state that Chairman Zero has brought to this country, but are by no means the last. If you think this is fun, just wait until The Chairman takes control of the air conditioning switches in your house and car, confiscates your 401k and takes control of the health care decisions you used to make on your own or with your doctor. Still think we’re free market? Elections have consequences, folks. ...”
Click for more comments here: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/05/letter_from_a_dodge_dealer.html


6 posted on 05/21/2009 4:03:06 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Conservatism is about freedom, and fighting people who want to take it away." Rush Limbaugh)
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To: junkman_106

You can have my pickemup when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers!

TC


7 posted on 05/21/2009 4:06:13 AM PDT by Pentagon Leatherneck
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To: autumnraine
Just wait until the SUV’s and trucks are banned because they are a danger to the smaller, lighter cars.

I await the future legal implications of driving a large automobile.

PREDICTION: One day the courts will award damages based on vehicle type and weight. Causes of action....the new "Hate Driving Laws"....

Far fetched you say.......?

8 posted on 05/21/2009 4:06:27 AM PDT by cbkaty (I may not always post...but I am always here......)
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To: rellimpank

By the way, Obama’s giving the REPUBLICANS an incredible amount of campaign fodder here. After showing a scene of a Soccer Mom trying to stuff her 3 kids into their Smart Car, they could say something like:

“Elect us and we’ll free up America to produce the cars that AMERICANS want”

[rather than cars that Kenyans want us to have - implied]

But, NO, the Republican leadership is too busy listening to Colon Bowels and pounding on Rush and Sarah.


9 posted on 05/21/2009 4:07:23 AM PDT by BobL (Drop a comment: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2180357/posts)
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To: rellimpank
you can have my 4X4 when you pry it from my cold dead @$$


10 posted on 05/21/2009 4:07:58 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: rellimpank
Commie Obammie reminds me of a clueless, wanna be mechanic.

The important parts that comprise the nation are strewn about the garage floor. He's tired of tinkering because he is incapable of making the motor function the way he remembered in his nightmare, so he'll eventually just give up, his mission accomplished: he's ruined the nation and it is unrepairable.

America will then officially become a communist nation: SNAFU!

11 posted on 05/21/2009 4:08:36 AM PDT by IbJensen (If Catholics voted based upon the teachings of the church, there would be no abortion and no Obomba.)
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To: rellimpank

When I was reading the mpg standards, I wondered about folks who need trucks or large vehicles to tow things. We tow a boat...wouldn’t that be an interesting thing to try with one of those “squadgy” fuel efficient cars.

Neil Cavuto interviewed a guy from cars.com (I think that’s where he was from) and he said if you own a high powered vehicle, by all means hold onto it. They’ll probably still make large vehicles, but you’ll be paying a lot more for them in the future.


12 posted on 05/21/2009 4:08:47 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: rellimpank
The chutzpah here, the arrogance, is astounding. Does this man really believe he has the whole nation hypnotized -- that he can say one thing while doing just the opposite?

Yes, he really believes that because the established media lets him get away with it.

13 posted on 05/21/2009 4:10:20 AM PDT by libertylover (The problem with Obama is not that his skin is too black, it's that his ideas are too RED.)
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To: rellimpank

BO’s socialist auto plan maybe put on hold since Chrysler dealers and pension funds are suing him.


14 posted on 05/21/2009 4:11:58 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: Vaquero

I will never surrender my F-150 4X4....

15 posted on 05/21/2009 4:12:01 AM PDT by cbkaty (I may not always post...but I am always here......)
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To: rellimpank

Obama’s revenge against Ford.


16 posted on 05/21/2009 4:13:50 AM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: Vaquero
Many areas of the country you have to have 4x4 to go anywhere 4-5 months a year.

And tiny lil 4x4 cars wont cut it because they have no ground clearance. My road by law doesn't get plowed until 3 days after a snow storm. Some people have to go to work every day.

17 posted on 05/21/2009 4:14:10 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: rellimpank

So I’m assuming this applies only to U.S. auto manufacturers?


18 posted on 05/21/2009 4:16:47 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: rellimpank
FUBO


19 posted on 05/21/2009 4:17:14 AM PDT by doodad
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To: Man50D
BO’s socialist auto plan maybe put on hold since Chrysler dealers and pension funds are suing him.

Every dealer should sue the b*^^%$d..... Dealers that fail to support the free market system by standing by and simply thanking their lucky stars that they were not closed are whistling past the cemetery...

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then... they came for me... And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

20 posted on 05/21/2009 4:17:46 AM PDT by cbkaty (I may not always post...but I am always here......)
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To: junkman_106

Amen to that, brother!

21 posted on 05/21/2009 4:18:48 AM PDT by Jagdgewehr
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To: rellimpank
This big-eared stalinist muslim will not be President forever and his treason will be reversed... but at great cost to a Nation that does not deserve his sedition.

LLS

22 posted on 05/21/2009 4:18:49 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (hussein will NEVER be my President... NEVER!!!)
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To: cbkaty

I would have helped them with the first two on your list...lol.


23 posted on 05/21/2009 4:19:55 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: rellimpank

Not ever having had a real leadership position, 0bama apparently does not realize one of the most important leadership truisms.

“You lead by example, whether you want to or not!”.

This means that unless the Federal Government gets rid of all those gas guzzleing SUV’s, NO ONE is going to take 0bama and his administration seriously or respect them.


24 posted on 05/21/2009 4:21:38 AM PDT by rgboomers (This space purposely left blank)
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To: rellimpank

I always laugh at the big SUV with the Obama sticker. Some I yell to at stop signs. “Hey are you going to give your SUV to OBAMA?”


25 posted on 05/21/2009 4:22:39 AM PDT by bmwcyle (American voters can fix this world if they would just wake up.)
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To: Matchett-PI
My business is being stolen from me...

Jim Anderer, a Long Island Chrysler dearly said the same thing on Neal Cavuto's show the other night. It's a good theme to use against Obama.

26 posted on 05/21/2009 4:23:01 AM PDT by tbpiper (How would you define a 'domestic enemy of the constitution'?)
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To: Beagle8U
I would have helped them with the first two on your list...lol.

Understood...and that is exactly what the O is thinking.... His MO is to attack those industries with the weakest public support first, and then.....

27 posted on 05/21/2009 4:23:34 AM PDT by cbkaty (I may not always post...but I am always here......)
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To: junkman_106
I ain’t givin’ up my F-150!

And then they will make parts for cars and trucks older than 10 years illegal.

28 posted on 05/21/2009 4:23:53 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault ( Obama, you're off the island!)
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To: junkman_106
I ain’t givin’ up my F-150! That’s why there’s a gun rack on the back window.

Americans will do as they're told, just like the citizens of every other self-made socialist country. My God, the government won't even let you buy a toilet that will flush decently!

There will be no revolution and Americans will only bitch when they are made an offer they can't refuse to give up their large vehicles just as the Australians did with their guns.

How ironic that the "masser's" hand locking our chains is the hand of a black man.

I don't blame the liberals, the anti-freedom faction has always been among us. I blame the lukewarm "middle", those that will give up anything to avoid a conflict and who naively think that the enemy really does want to "just get along". Although I believe it is too late to matter, those that are neither hot nor cold I too will vomit from my mouth.

29 posted on 05/21/2009 4:23:57 AM PDT by Prokopton
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To: Matchett-PI
just wait until The Chairman ... confiscates your 401k

Paid the taxes and spent it already, including on a brand new Suburban.

I know it was stupid, but it seemed the best of a menu of bad choices.

I think the confiscation of private retirement savings is a certainty, and I do not believe that the restoration of legal and constitutional government will come in time to prevent it.

30 posted on 05/21/2009 4:25:01 AM PDT by Jim Noble (They are willing to kill for socialism...but not to die for it.)
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To: rellimpank
Nearly everybody else will drive smaller cars, and more of them will run on electricity

Where will the electricity be produced, and how?

31 posted on 05/21/2009 4:25:57 AM PDT by Jim Noble (They are willing to kill for socialism...but not to die for it.)
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To: rgboomers
NO ONE is going to take 0bama and his administration seriously or respect them.

You don't have to respect them, you just have to obey.

32 posted on 05/21/2009 4:26:26 AM PDT by Prokopton
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To: rellimpank
Obviously Obama and company believes that pick-ups are just for rednecks to display their guns and confederate flags and serve no purpose. Out here in flyover country..you know that place where we cling to out guns and religion as well as produce the food on your plates...pick-ups are an essential part of farming and ranching as well as a host of other small businesses. The great Lord Obama in his infinite wisdom will make doing common tasks on farms and ranches like hauling feed, taking a trailer of pigs to market, fixing fences, bring parts out to the combine etc. nearly impossible as some dinky vehicle designed by bureaucrats isn't up to the job. I imagine even organic farmers and tofu makers need pick-ups for similar tasks.

Other businesses will also suffer. Case in point..my brother in law is a whole sale bait dealer and depends on a large pick-up to haul his minnow tanks..no puny econo-truck can do the job. However as pick-ups are also a major means of hauling fishing boats in these parts, I expect to see his business and well as other recreational businesses flounder.

All hail Lord Obama who will make our country into East German complete with crappy little government built cars.

33 posted on 05/21/2009 4:26:44 AM PDT by The Great RJ (chain.)
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To: cbkaty
I understand that, but commies and unions (same thing) are a poor example of things he would attack. He loves them.
34 posted on 05/21/2009 4:27:21 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: dawn53
We tow a boat...wouldn’t that be an interesting thing to try with one of those “squadgy” fuel efficient cars.

No problem. I'm sure boats will not be allowed unless the pass the 35 mpg standard, so yours will be confiscated.

35 posted on 05/21/2009 4:27:33 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault ( Obama, you're off the island!)
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To: tbpiper

How many of those that are being put out of business voted for him?

I would say most of them.


36 posted on 05/21/2009 4:28:08 AM PDT by sport
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To: rellimpank
In otherwords, everyone will be forced to drive a smart car, and pay $40,000 for what is only worth the price of a moped. This is the first step in implementing Obama's communist state dream. We will now have the Russian equivalent of a Lada (Niva), the mandatory soviet vehicle- available in three colors.

If you want to drive something else, you'll have to move to another country.

Hey but at least auto workers will have their retirement health care plans, and Obama will have saved the planet, (while China, Russia, Turkey, India, and all of Pacific rim Asian countries triple their CO2 outputs over the next ten years as they take over the markets around the world.

37 posted on 05/21/2009 4:28:20 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: autumnraine

He came for the Caddys....
Then he came for the...

Are you awake yet, America?
Wait till he gets to yer stinkin’ %#@*ing bmw’s....

Just Watch....


38 posted on 05/21/2009 4:28:30 AM PDT by gunnyg
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To: IbJensen
America will then officially become a communist nation:

Parts will. Other parts will find ways to put a barrier between themselves and dee-cee. State by State the session will occure. As tax revenue vanishes from the States that give the Øbamanation the finger, the Øbamanation will demand more from the appeaser States. As taxes increase in those states population will shift out of the appeaser states and into the session States. Eventually the Øbamanation will fold from lack of tax revenue.

Supply and demand, freedom of choice, ”reckless capitalism.”

No communist Øbamanation can deny it, it is human nature backed up with 100,000,000 firearms and billions of round of ammo.

The Øbamanation is pizzing into the wind of a future hurricane.

39 posted on 05/21/2009 4:29:09 AM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: rellimpank

Nonsense. The pick-up truck will still be available to all Americans - provided only that the vehicle has no engine and is powered by driver-operated bicycle pedals where the gas pedal used to be.


40 posted on 05/21/2009 4:30:05 AM PDT by Jack Hammer (here)
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To: autumnraine

I am not giving up my truck or SUV, espcially for a tiny car that cannot hold a family.


41 posted on 05/21/2009 4:30:09 AM PDT by navygal (Palin 2012, change you will be begging for.)
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To: Beagle8U
Some people have to go to work every day.

If the government decides it's best for you, you might have to move.

42 posted on 05/21/2009 4:30:16 AM PDT by Prokopton
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To: bmwcyle

“I always laugh at the big SUV with the Obama sticker. Some I yell to at stop signs. “Hey are you going to give your SUV to OBAMA?””

I stopped behind a Volvo 4WD station wagon the other day near Boulder, Co. Obama sticker on the rear window and the license read “X GAIA”. A real friend of the earth there.


43 posted on 05/21/2009 4:30:27 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: Prokopton
How ironic that the "masser's" hand locking our chains is the hand of a black man.

Seems that the plan is being advanced faster that the public can digest it........

The good news is the current sovereignty rumblings in several states, Montana, Texas, etc...and even California seems to be awakening.

44 posted on 05/21/2009 4:30:48 AM PDT by cbkaty (I may not always post...but I am always here......)
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To: libertylover
“Does this man really believe he has the whole nation hypnotized — that he can say one thing while doing just the opposite?”
My feeling is that the number of Americans that are outraged over this garbage is very, very high and that the media are lying through their teeth about that fact. Of course the Socialists are going to be very busy in the next 12 months making sure they amnesty 30 million illegals and do every thing in their power to put a permanent voting base on the government dole. The problem they have is that their plan is not sustainable. We are already shedding jobs from the productive sector at an alarming rate, and everything they've done so far is making sure that trend continues.
We are in for major tax increases, major inflationary death spirals and they won't stop “fixing” things until we're dead. Instead of bitching about it, we should be surrounding Washington D.C. with 100 million people with pitchforks. It's the same path to hell the Nazi's rolled out, and the same results. We all watch while they take away this group and we do nothing because it's not us. Yet.
45 posted on 05/21/2009 4:31:02 AM PDT by bitterohiogunclinger (America held hostage - day 163)
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To: Jack Hammer

46 posted on 05/21/2009 4:33:15 AM PDT by cbkaty (I may not always post...but I am always here......)
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To: Matchett-PI

Maybe Mr. Joseph should take advantage of the Fla. automobile franchise law to the extent it has any viability in a bankruptcy situation. And if it doesn’t, just what did Mr. Joseph think would happen when Chrysler ended up in a Chap 11, which, btw, was inevitable?


47 posted on 05/21/2009 4:33:36 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: sport
Don't know. It would be interesting to find out.

I'm anxiously waiting for Obama to start carting his arrogant ass around in a stretched, up-armored smart car.

48 posted on 05/21/2009 4:33:36 AM PDT by tbpiper (How would you define a 'domestic enemy of the constitution'?)
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To: The Great RJ
The RV business is going to suffer too. What am I supposed to pull my 30 ft travel trailer with? Shaking my head again & thinking it IS going to get much worse for us.
49 posted on 05/21/2009 4:34:34 AM PDT by pandoraou812 (elected officials should be required to pass drug, alcohol & dementia testing)
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To: rellimpank

From my dead cold hands.


50 posted on 05/21/2009 4:34:35 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (The only time I want a Republican reaching across the aisle is to smack a liberal.)
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