Lance Corporal Amy Thomas, is thought to be the first British woman to fire on the frontline in Afghanistan
Posted on 05/25/2009 6:05:16 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
European Union directive forced the Ministry of Defence to review their "close-combat" role.
Under the Equal Treatment Directive, the MoD said it had to carry out the study despite a similar review in 2002 concluding that the policy to employ only male personnel in close combat roles should remain.
Lance Corporal Amy Thomas, is thought to be the first British woman to fire on the frontline in Afghanistan
Servicewomen are currently excluded from roles where they are likely to "deliberately close with and kill the enemy face-to-face".
Brigadier Richard Nugee, the Army's Director of Manning, is leading the review that the EU is now demanding every eight years.
He told the BBC's Politics Show: "We are looking at what might have changed - is there any change - over the last time we did a review, that was in 2002, that would change our opinion of whether women can be used in the ground combat role or not."
But he insisted that any decisions taken would be for military reasons rather than because of political pressure.
"The fact that an EU directive has asked us to do it is almost incidental. This is a very open-minded review, we have no conclusions yet. We want to see which way it will go by looking at the circumstances our women have been in the front line."
Some officers believe the review is a waste of resources as the last Combat Gender Effectiveness Study was dismissed as a farce with more physically demanding tasks watered down.
General Sir Mike Jackson, the former Army chief, said nothing had changed since the 2002 review.
He warned if the Government changed its mind on the role of women "there would be concerns that operational effectiveness, particularly in the infantry, could be
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
I see nothing wrong with it, as long as the women are able to pass the exact same physical and mental requirements as men on the front lines have to pass.
With the exception of the U.K., I don’t see the EU engaging in any military conflict. They seem to shy away from it at every occasion. The EU actually taking measures to defend themselves seems pretty slim... so I don’t think we’ll see any EU women soldiers in combat anytime soon...,
‘’Servicewomen are currently excluded from roles where they are likely to “deliberately close with and kill the enemy face-to-face”.’’
So, just as with US females soldiers, they will be put into positions where they are likely to get ambushed or subject IED, etc. But, they won’t be in ‘combat’.
Just wait until there is a big general war—History tells us that it is just a question of time. There is a reason women are not on the battlefield and each time it has been tried it was a failure. Just wait until the women POWs face terrible abuse at the hands of the enemy. Just because things are the way they are now doesn’t mean they will stay this way. The EU will become a relic soon enough, along with the UN.
I know some women are just as capable as men and in some areas women may be able to outdo men, but I just think it reflects poorly on any society to send women into combat. Maybe I’m just old fashioned. I mean do disrespect to women in uniform or to those that have given the ultimate sacrifice, but it just doesn’t seem right.
oops...I meant no disrespect.
In truth, an aircraft does not care who pilots it, nor does a ship care who drives it as such.
As a Military training Instructor who trained both male and female and as an aircraft crew member among other jobs, I found a few truths to be sure.
1. About 10% of all women in uniform can equal or exceed any male in combat tasks required with the proper training and attitude.
2. About 15% of all males would be unable or unfit to perform combat tasks in any given situation.
3. Generally speaking, it takes 90 people to support one combat soldier, and about 120 to support one pilot or aircraft crew.
Hand-to-hand combat might take place in any modern conflict, but the odds are slim. I knew a couple of female AF medics that could and did exceed the physical standards and were very motivated, brave and dedicated individuals. I would have and did on at least one occasion trust them with my life and those of my crew.
Not all women, especially these days are the “weak sister’ sort, but that said, there are some out there. IMO, it depends on the woman, the NCOIC’s and the Commanders to sort out the wheat from the chaff.
Just sayin’.
Regards,
AR
woman here. I do NOT want a woman on the front lines, by choice or by “mandate”, in the United States military. I am a wife and mother to 3 sons. I know my sons, and there is no way they will be able to focus on killing the enemy when the possibility of a woman being captured or blown apart is next to them. They were raised to protect and respect women. That split second they glance over to check her, they could be killed, and they may not be able to refuse to answer questions if they were captured and watching her be raped or tortured. I feel it would be the same for most men. Something about it being a woman would drive them insane. You think they were tortured with bad memories when they came home from Nam or Korea? Just wait til they have THOSE flashbacks.
Women in support roles? Great, we couldn’t do it without them. Women pilots? No problem. Women comanders? Fine. Women grunts in hand to hand? Nope Nada Never. While they are no less brave, and their sacrifices no less worthy, men and women are different, see things differently, and there is no way that women on front lines will make our men better at what they do, it will harm them.
I can’t figure out women today. While I am only 41, I can’t understand how women think it is better to be everywhere a man is? I for one, RELISH the thought that I am a soldiers motivation to fight to the death. I am his support and strength in battle. I am worth dying for to him. I am the first thing he wants to see when he gets home, and the one thing that can brighten a tough day while he is gone by getting a letter or a care package. I know my place to a US soldier; I am his inspiration, not a distraction, and I adore each and every one of them. In the event of another world war, I will be the woman he dances with, the red cross worker who cares for him, and I will do the behind the scenes work that allows him to do the front line work. I will care for the injured, bury the dead, and welcome home the living. I only wish more women would understand their high esteem and God given calling to be the caretakers of their countrymen. There is a reason the saying “the hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world” is in existence; it is a sacred duty and a womans ordained role to be the helpmate and caretaker of man. If only more women took it seriously, the rulers of the world might be better able to do their job. Thank you all for your service this Memorial Day, and prayers for those who gave all......xoxo
“I agree with you somewhat, however, I served with a few women in the USAF who could meet any test and more.
In truth, an aircraft does not care who pilots it, nor does a ship care who drives it as such.
As a Military training Instructor who trained both male and female and as an aircraft crew member among other jobs, I found a few truths to be sure.
1. About 10% of all women in uniform can equal or exceed any male in combat tasks required with the proper training and attitude.
2. About 15% of all males would be unable or unfit to perform combat tasks in any given situation.
3. Generally speaking, it takes 90 people to support one combat soldier, and about 120 to support one pilot or aircraft crew.
Hand-to-hand combat might take place in any modern conflict, but the odds are slim. I knew a couple of female AF medics that could and did exceed the physical standards and were very motivated, brave and dedicated individuals. I would have and did on at least one occasion trust them with my life and those of my crew.
Not all women, especially these days are the “weak sister’ sort, but that said, there are some out there. IMO, it depends on the woman, the NCOIC’s and the Commanders to sort out the wheat from the chaff.
Just sayin’.
Regards,
AR”
Good reply thank you.
No woman can equal or exceed the top 10% percent of properly trained and fit males in combat roles that require strength, mass, and aggression. Few if any women could match males in the top 30 percent for that matter.
If you're talking about desk flying a Predator, I'll concede the point.
“I know some women are just as capable as men and in some areas women may be able to outdo men, but I just think it reflects poorly on any society to send women into combat. Maybe I’m just old fashioned. I mean do disrespect to women in uniform or to those that have given the ultimate sacrifice, but it just doesn’t seem right.”
I feel the same way and have friends on the police department and with female law officers when things get physical they are useless.
Amen, if they can pass the same PT standards, then saddle up butch.
While there are exceptions, no doubt, women do not have the aggressive nature men have that makes them good combat soldiers.
Geez, after 3 seasons, even The Unit put a chick on the team.
yitbos
I know some women are just as capable as men and in some areas women may be able to outdo men, but I just think it reflects poorly on any society to send women into combat.
.....sending women into harm’s way is a shameful reflection on the state of American manhood...same goes for the Brits.
“.....sending women into harm’s way is a shameful reflection on the state of American manhood...same goes for the Brits.”
I could not do that either if it was my call.
I don’t really disagree... We have women combat pilots - Warthogs, Apaches, etc. It could get bad for them under the wrong circumstances...
Women in combat support positions - even ones that endanger them from time to time as in Iraq. This can be dealt with — but more exposure is a Big potential problem..
But the EU actually fighting in a war — only theoretical...
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