Posted on 06/01/2009 7:02:51 PM PDT by Tamar Rush
Worse that that...Leaders are held to a higher standard than the lay members and will receive a harsher penalty for scattering the sheep.
The rot starts at the top doesn't it.
There. Fixed it. Now it is completely understandable.
The incident has raised questions not only about the killer but also about Dr. Tillers presence in a Christian church. Satanic cult"
There. Fixed it. Now it is completely understandable.
The leadership of tiller's church or any other church Amen to that !
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
that teaches the torture and murder of innocent children
are taking their congregations on the wide road to destruction. Psalm 146:3 Do not trust in princes,
In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
Though we can’t know the future, God knows everything at all times.
He would not let someone go to the hereafter if there were a chance at some time during his natural life that he would have accepted Christ and repented.
Apostate.
Simple and to the point.
And, I might add, there is no way to be “liberal” and Christian. Liberalism by its very belief system is a “friend of the world”, which is in enmity to God.
You cannot serve the two masters of worldliness and Christ.
I object!
The art of surgery is an attempt to heal an illness or to repair an injury or defect.
Abortion is a murderous assault on an unborn person.
Jesus doesn't wait forever ... Tiller's life was ended suddenly by a man with a gun. Yours or mine could be ended just as suddenly by getting crosswise with a Kenworth, while driving home from work.
Can anyone think of a reason that someone would get a “late term” abortion (rather than a 1st trimester abortion)
other than COERCION?
Some folks find out that their baby has some defect (Down Syndrome, for example), and decide to kill him.
ping
I thought Down’s was detectable before 26 weeks.
There are synods of the Lutheran church that are conservative and faithful - not all of us are looney liberals. Thank you for the kind invitation, and I do not want to start a flame war, but I stand behind the reasons for the reformation.
sage advice
Low self esteem?
I'd have to look it up. That sounds right, though.
Couple of interesting points I've thought since our conversation the other day:
1) From seeing what Martin Luther's personal views on abortion were on this thread, it's clear that the Reformation Lutheran Church in Witchia, Kansas wasn't following their namesake founder's views when they allowed an unrepentant abortionist to have a leadership role in their church. So yes, in that particular case, a Lutheran church is not following Lutherism.
2) From the comments I've seen on this board, it appears there are alot of conservative, pro-life freepers who are members of the ELCA. It's wrong to paint the entire denomination as liberal and un-Christian (though certainly I'd make that case with the particular congregation that Tiller attended). It seem the ELCA didn't even exist prior to 1988, so alot of the old time Lutherans weren't "raised" in that denomination at all. Unfortunately, many are probably in the same situation Conservativegreatgrandma mentioned, being from a conservative congregation that was absorbed into the ELCA following a merger belong their control. I understand the reasons for wanting to leave the ELCA for the LCMS, but I can also see there are conservatives trying to work within the ELCA to move them to the right, and we ought to respect that. I still don't think the ELCA is as misguided as say, the Unitarian Universalism Church.
3) As a Catholic, I don't have a problem at all with freepers saying the Reformation was important and that Luther was right. That's not a flame. Of course the Lutherans on FreeRepublic are going to claim that, otherwise you guys wouldn't be Lutheranisms! Furthermore, I think you'll find most Catholics would agree with some of issues Luther had the time. There is no getting around the fact that the Catholic church had some corruption problems in that era and the selling of indulgences was wrong (of course the Catholic church today hasn't done any "money-for-indulences" in several hundred years). Of course we're not going to agree with Luther's entire agenda (otherwise we'd convert to Lutheranism!) but Luther's actions DID bring those problems to the attention of the grassroots lay Christians and not only resulted in Protestantism, but resulted in alot of needed changes to the Catholic church. Personally I think Lutheranism can make much more of a case for its existence than Anglicanism (many of the Episocipian freepers won't be too happy with me because I view their denomination as only existing so some fat lecherous King could divorce his wife... and I agree on the point that if they don't like gay bishops and all they should just rejoin the Catholic church since their church is basically Catholic lite)
4) It's true the Catholic church had doctrinal unity no matter what "faction" of Catholicism you join (makes it easier for us to formally change rites or join a new congregation), and even those schematic churches no longer in communion with Rome (like Mel Gibson's church) pretty much stick with 2000 years of tradition and decry abortion and homosexuality as wrong. However, it's also true that Christian groups that retain overall solid doctrines on these issues, particularly Catholics and South Baptists, never-the-less have some reengage ministers and bishops in their church preaching otherwise. In short, what good is doctrinal unity if you won't enforce it? I think many Catholics on this board just as appalled when a "Catholic" university gave Obama an honorary degree and let him speak about abortion. And as a Catholic I felt just as embarrassed as the Lutherans did with Tiller, when the whole world learned that a "Catholic" priest in Chicago is buddies with Rev. Wright and tells his parishes that all white people are scum and encourages everyone in his congregation to vote for Obama. That heretical "church" isn't teaching anything remotely "Catholic" and it's priest should be excommunicated. But will the Roman Catholic leadership in Chicago that has jurisdiction over the church do anything? No. They gave him a slap on the writ, but still allow that heretic to use Catholic church property to spew his hatred. The solution for me was simple, I simply joined a Catholic church that was not under the authority of the Roman Catholic archdiocese of Chicago. However, the fact that "Father" Pfeleger is still a priest in good standing is enormously embarrassing to all Catholics.
The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod earlier excommunicated Dr. Tiller. He then went to the very liberal ELCA.
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