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To: gatex
-- Cruickshank said : "This is one of the amendments that has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government." --

Right. And Presser reiterated that. It takes a bit of legal thinking to understand the cases, but nothing that a non-lawyer couldn't understand. First, links to the two cases for your files:

Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886)
US v Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542

The legal thinking is to first make note of the parties and issue in the case, because that is ALL that is decided. The issue in Cruikshank was a federal law that aimed to criminalize personal action that infringes rights. Non-government defendants had been charged with conspiring to violate the RKBA of other individuals. The Cruikshank Court said that a person whose RKBA have been infringed BY A PRIVATE ACTOR cannot look to the 2nd amendment for help. State law is there to vindicate wrongs committed by your fellow citizen in that regard.

The single phrase you picked out and isolated, "This is one of the amendments that has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government," is certainly in there, but there is much more context, and it is an error to presume that phrase represents the rule/law of the case.

Presser is good, because it takes this Cruikshank case, and uses it in light of a state law. The state law in Presser was a law requiring a parade permit, and Presser said the 2nd amendment creates a right to a parade, as long as the marchers bring guns. Silly argument, but that's what he argued. The Supreme Court, In Presser, said parade permitting is a legitimate police power, i.e., Presser, you don't have a RKBA case here.

I am absolutely AGAINST the notion of incorporation as a legal doctrine. It is opportunity for much continued legal mischief at the hands of the feds. That said, incorporation will happen before the feds admit that the lied about what Cruikshank/Presser really stand for. Even SCOTUS is hostile to RKBA, bigtime. But the deep-sixing of a good RKBA case, Miller, is a whole nother story.

19 posted on 06/04/2009 1:17:35 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt
"The single phrase you picked out and isolated, "This is one of the amendments that has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government," is certainly in there, but there is much more context, and it is an error to presume that phrase represents the rule/law of the case. "

Agree, but I suspect this is what the law clerks writing the opinions look at.

Good comments you made. I think some people have guns, but want gun control so others can not have a gun. Remember Rosie O'Donnel's body guard geting caught with a gun at the day care center.

Thanks for the links.

22 posted on 06/04/2009 1:56:22 PM PDT by gatex (NRA, JPFO and Gun Owners of America)
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To: Cboldt
I am absolutely AGAINST the notion of incorporation as a legal doctrine.

I don't like it much either. But I don't see how to avoid it.

Would you please comment on the language of the 2nd amendment? On its face with the passive voice and no specified agent it seems to me not necessarily to pertain only to the Feds.

23 posted on 06/04/2009 2:20:17 PM PDT by Mad Dawg
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