California Screamin'
-PJ
Posted on 06/08/2009 12:01:08 PM PDT by reaganaut1
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California has a projected deficit equal to 5% of the state's gross domestic product; the federal government is running a deficit of 12% of GDP. California's total state debt is 21% of state GDP; the gross public debt of the federal government exceeds 75% of GDP.
The average Californian is richer than the average American and California has more than its fair share of rich people (who pay the bulk of state and federal taxes). But Schwarzenegger and the dysfunctional legislature are hoping Washington will provide the same kind of deus ex machina rescue that it is providing to big banks. Naturally, they want a better deal than the feds are giving to General Motors and Chrysler, because states don't go bankrupt.
California's budget problems started with the inflation of the 1970s, which drove up local property-tax assessments and created financial windfalls for municipalities. Cities, towns and counties spent all the money and more, ignoring taxpayers' cries of pain, particularly from an aging population trying to make ends meet on fixed incomes.
Geezers and cheapskates struck back, using the power of initiative to amend the state constitution in their favor. Proposition 13, enacted in 1978, limited property taxes to 1% of value and limited future increases in assessments to 2% per year.
Californians dug a tax shelter for themselves and crawled in. Existing owners were shielded from assessment increases in excess of 2% a year, although new homes and old homes sold to new owners could be assessed at full value. Prop. 13 also benefited commercial and residential landlords.
The longer a Californian holds on to property, the further his assessments are out of sync with reality and the less likely he is to sell.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.barrons.com ...
If property taxes changed in California, the state would just spend more. They need to be controlled before any tax policies are changed.....either up or down. California needs to come up with a realistic budget and live within that budget. This budget should cut all money going to illegals.....estimates now reach $1 Billion of Californians tax money. There is so much wrong with California that it has been suggested that they reset the Constitution back to the original and start over. I’m beginning to agree with that idea.
B.S. - California's problems are caused by to much spending.
California's revenues are up 40% since Gov. Arnie took over five years ago. Are your wages up 40% in the last five years?
If they had kept spending increases to the rate of inflation and population they would be sitting on a $15 Billion surplus, but they spent ever penny and lots more.
We live in a neighborhood with a lot of folks over 70 who have owned their houses for decades and could not afford to pay even 1% of current property values in the form of property tax.
Prop 13 has gone all the way to the US Supreme Court and found to be constitutional. It is hard to explain, but in fact the home owner with Prop 13 is penalized when they sell, because the new owner pays less for the house because they will pay higher taxes. Taxes and loan payments are part of the cost of ownerhsip..the higher the taxes the less people can pay for their new home.
If Prop 13 were repealed and the new realestate tax was revenue neutral..it wouldn’t help the state, If they increased the prop tax, it would encourage lots of people to finally sell and leave the state..prop values would fall and so would tax revenues.
I can say that I saw about a 80% increase in “healthcare” spending at the state level at that time. This includes more and easier eligiblity and more programs, including Domestic Violence programs within nearly every city over 70K population that, technically, qualify as “healthcare”.
Most have laudable goals, but VERY few actual clients who benefit beyond a true handful ancedontal stories told by these agencies and Gov. funded NGO’s. Exec. Director income levels are for these outfits can be much higher than you might expect.
It doesn't depend on how long they lived in the home. It depends only on the price they paid for it, adjusted annually by 2%.
I think property taxes should be abolished, entirely. They fly in the face of our rights as described by our founders (life, liberty, property) and represent nothing more than rent paid to the state.
...I think Prop 13 should be changed or repealed...Democrats probably want to repeal it but keep the current property and sales taxes, just as some Dems want a national sales tax (VAT) on top of the current income tax.
Of course that's what the Dems would want. If Prop 13 had not passed people really would have been put out of their homes, especially fixed-income elderly. Your alternative is reasonable to a point but IMO would still onerously impact the aforementioned group.
And it shows. So we've got a state that reaped untold riches during the dotcom boom in the 90's and the real estate boom in the 00's, not to mention the aerospace and entertainment industries that are unrivaled in the world. But aerospace tanked in the 90's; a lot of the dotcommers moved out as cheaper states came up to speed in high tech (including overseas) and the real estate boom was really just a charade. Now Californians are trying to figure out how to be rich selling each other bongs; meanwhile, the state is at a spending level rivaling most nations, and everyone is trying to figure out where all the good times went.
Prop 13: keep it intact. Starve the state of it's drug and make them go into rehab. You've got state legislatures protecting illegals, overpaid and often unnecessary state workers, overpaid pensioners, etc. and everyone wants to blame the taxpayer. Eff the state--let a little chaos bring everyone back to reality.
Prop 13 tilts the property tax burden against homeowners and in favor of business properties. Commercial property tends to change hands less often than residential property.
California Screamin'
-PJ
Prop 13 tilts the property tax burden against homeowners and in favor of business properties.
That notwithstanding, Prop 13 still helps homeowners. I know because it helped me.
That should be throughout the entire country. It's sad when you think you are a "property owner", but in reality are nothing but an indentured servant to the state.
The longer a Californian holds on to property, the further his assessments are out of sync with reality and the less likely he is to sell.
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The Gubamental Beast must be fed at any cost.
Skrewple Gramma and Gramps..
Reality? I got a piece of reality I’d gladly share with those who seek to toss Prop 13. It’s 2 inches by 4 inches.
Prop 13 does not charge different tax rates depending on how long you have lived in the house. Proposition 13 is not the problem. Runaway home price inflation - spurred on by government policies - is the reason new home buyers were penalized. Now that home prices are returning to rational levels, the taxes will be less. Prop 13 stopped the treadmill that other liberal fascist states like NY, NJ, MA have used to constantly ratchet taxes to unbearable levels. If it is repealed, it will be over several million people’s dead bodies - the great majority of Californians support it. California needs more Prop 13 , not less - it needs one for income taxes, and one for sales taxes.
Let me know when you run for office, you've got my vote.
I just paid my first installment on my property taxes today. In my county you pay in 2 installments. June and September. I guess by breaking it up into 2 pieces, I'm supposed to think I'm paying less. That might work with liberals but I'm smarter than that.
I think Prop 13 should be changed or repealed, because someone’s property tax should not depend on how long they have lived in the home
It’s true that people living side by side in similar homes are sometimes paying extremely different property taxes but I see it as a protection for those who live in their property for life and live within their means. At least buyers know what their property taxes will be and can make an informed decision on whether to purchase. Our politicians CAN NOT and WILL NOT curtail spending. Considering that there is no alternative but to take property taxation out of their hands completely.
They have proven over and over again that given the opportunity they’ll raise taxes, any taxes that they are allowed and they’ve also proven over and over again that they place little value in protecting the taxpaying citizen.
It’s time to starve the beast and let the chips fall where they may. These tax and spend cockroaches are not competent enough to make decisions relating to property taxes. I say, thank God for Prop 13. Howard Jarvis and company are heros in my book.
ARTICLE 1, (Section 1.) "All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness and privacy." (This section adopted November 5, 1974 by a vote of the people)
Or, how about Section 19 adopted at the same time and in the same manor:
Private property may be taken or damaged for public use only when just compensation, ascertained by a jury unless waived, has first been paid to, or into court for, the owner..."
People and goverments at all levels are paying less attention to our state constitution than even our federal!!!
Now "self governance" is losing out all the way around, it seems. These were to be the words we submit out wills too, not mere politicians... "A government of laws, rather than of men!"
California does not have a revenue problem. It has a spending problem, all Prop 13 apologists notwithstanding. House values have soared since Prop 13 was enacted and most of the state’s homes have changed hands, reassessing them to much higher values for tax purposes. Leave the elderly on fixed incomes alone. Prop 13 is not the problem. A communist legislature than never saw an entitlement program they didn’t like, even to illegal aliens, is the problem.
Indeed. You don’t own your home. Quit paying property taxes and just see how fast you don’t own your home.
BS!
You should get your sorry ass kicked off FR for being a freakin’ fool!
Prop 13 is the only thing to protect property owners from MORE taxation!
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