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To: Ken H
"I thought the central message was that mankind is fallen, and everyone is damned for all eternity UNLESS they accept Salvation before dying. Not true...."

Not true.

Not everybody has had a chance to hear God's word or know of His Savior before their physical death. They are not condemned to the lake of fire for that ignorance.

Your two quotes do not describe people who've never heard of Christ receiving final judgment for not accepting Him while in the flesh.

The Revelation quote is talking about the actual 'second death' which comes at the end of the millennium. At that point Christ will have been here a thousand years and will be quite well known by all. Those condemned at the end of that period will not be innocent by ignorance.

The Matthew quote is the end of a parable the Lord was relaying regarding the millennium period. Christ is telling the parable about the separation of the sheep from the goats. At this point in Matthew He had just got done teaching His followers about how to recognize when the end times are near and how believers are to prepare for it. After detailing some of those signs and stating how the unbelievers will not even notice what's going on (thus His reference to the days of Noah when corrupt folks went on corrupting themselves until the shock of reality drowned them) He then taught a series of parables about what SHOULD happen while He is away (now) and what WILL happen when He returns.

First He mentions the lazy, drunken guy left in charge who thinks to himself "ah, the Master won't be back soon" and goes about his sinful ways. And He compares that bum to the faithful and wise fellow who tends to his master house and provides "meat in due season" to those entrusted to him. Of course, the wise fellow was richly rewarded and the lazy bum who did not watch and did not provide the "meat" ends up doing the proverbial "weeping and gnashing of teeth" when the Master returns to "cut him asunder".

Next is the parable of the ten virgins which is also about preparation, watching and waiting. The five wise virgins fully prepared and then waited. The foolish five did not prepare. When the bridegroom showed up suddenly He (Christ) gives the foolish five the old "I know you not" routine and locks them out of the wedding celebration.

Then He teaches the parable of the servants (today's Christians) which the Master (Christ) leaves in charge while He's away and gives each a certain amount of "talents". The literal meaning of talents in the parable is bars of gold while the spiritual meaning is gifts He gives to Christians including knowledge of His word, ability to teach, etc. Thus our modern use of talents to mean abilities not acquired by ones own doing as opposed to simple skills achieved via practice. Some of the servants make good use of their various amounts of talents and are profitable to the Master. But the "wicked and slothful" servant just hid his talent while the Master was away to nobody's profit. That guy's punishment was that the Lord takes away his one measly talent and gives it to the guy who already has the most talents - kinda like Obamanomics in reverse. And, of course, the unprofitable guy is cast into "outer darkness" where there is more "weeping and gnashing of teeth".

All these teachings and parables were concerning believers.

Then, finally He gets to the parable of the sheep and the goats from which you pulled your quote. This parable concerns what will happen to the unsaved non-believers when He gets back. They (if you're reading the KJV it will say "nations", but the greek is masculine rather than neuter which means it should be interpreted as meaning individual people from the nations) will be gathered together before Christ (on His throne) and then separated good from bad. The bad are called "goats" and are put on the left while the good are called "sheep" and put on the right since, in the bible, right is always better than left - hey, just like American politics! Sheep are used for the good because their instinct is to be mild-mannered and to follow, goats are used for the bad because their instinct is to be stubborn, independent and often troublesome (plus, they stink which I know because some are outside my window as I type).

Here's the important part:

The basis on which He decides who goes with the sheep on the right and who goes with the goats on the left is the way that each had treated "My brethen" (Christians) while He was away.

49 posted on 06/18/2009 5:28:25 PM PDT by BuddhaBrown (Path to enlightenment: Four right turns, then go straight until you see the Light!)
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To: BuddhaBrown
What about the case of Jews who died in the Holocaust, who surely heard the Gospels. Are they given another chance at some point?
51 posted on 06/18/2009 5:38:21 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: BuddhaBrown

“Knowing God” - having a personal relationship w/God is first and foremost.


54 posted on 06/18/2009 6:14:12 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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