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[from 2008] Walter Cronkite, Vietnam, and the Decline of Media Credibility
American Thinker ^ | February 27, 2008 | Lee Cary

Posted on 06/19/2009 7:14:12 AM PDT by ETL

Walter Cronkite’s remarks at the end of his February 27, 1968 evening news broadcast, four decades ago today, were a watershed in the history of the MSM’s credibility.  

Unless you’re at least 55 years old, you probably don’t remember that CBS broadcast 40 years ago.  The most trusted man in America had recently returned from Vietnam where he hosted a documentary on the VC/NVA TET (New Year) offensive that began January 31, 1968.  Back in NYC, he closed his program that night by introducing “an analysis that must be speculative, personal, [and] subjective.”  Among his comments were these:

Who won and who lost in the great Tet offensive against the cities?  I’m not sure.  The Vietcong did not win by a knockout, but neither did we.  The referees of history may make it a draw.

It seems now more certain than ever that the bloody experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate.

But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could.  (Emphases added)

Most evenings Cronkite ended his broadcasts with “And that’s the way it is.”  That night he ended with a more somber, “This is Walter Cronkite. Good night.”

Today, it’s hard to fully appreciate the stature and status Cronkite held in 1968.  He was the successor in fame to the demigod persona that had been Edward R. Murrow.  When President Johnson heard of Cronkite’s comments, he was quoted as saying, “That’s it.  If I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost middle America.”

In January 2006,  Cronkite said his statement on Vietnam was his proudest moment.  When asked then if he would give the same advice on Iraq, Cronkite didn’t hesitate to say “Yes.”

At the time, Cronkite’s pronouncement added credibility and importance to all the network anchors.  His was a stunning exercise of media power.  But, in the perspective of history, the outcome of his pronouncement is not universally recognized as having been positive.  He overtly and figuratively stepped out from behind the microphone to add his personal commentary to the news.  We had not seen this before.  By doing so, Cronkite issued an implicit license to his journalistic colleagues to interject personal opinions into their factual reporting of the news.  The difference is that Cronkite clearly labeled it as personal opinion, while many MSM news personalities today weave their opinions into reporting. His sentiment registered with many, perhaps most, of his viewers that night.  He changed opinions by offering his own.  But in hindsight, his analysis was wrong – dead wrong for some.

Generally, the “referees of history” have not rendered the TET offensive a military draw.  The VC/NVA suffered unexpectedly high casualties, from which it took years to recover.  In particular, the ranks of the Viet Cong were decimated.  General No Nguyen Giap, the Supreme Commander of the Viet Minh (NVA) forces said, in a 1989 interview with CBS’s Morley Safer,
“We paid a high price, but so did you…not only in lives and material…After Tet the Americans had to back down and come to the negotiating table, because the war was not only moving into…dozens of cities and towns in South Vietnam, but also to the living rooms of Americans back home for some time. The most important result of the Tet offensive was it made you de-escalate the bombing, and it brought you to the negotiation table.  It was, therefore, a victory…The war was fought on many fronts.  At that time the most important one was American public opinion.” (The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer, 2005)

The Vietnam War did not end in a stalemate, particularly for those S. Vietnamese who, at risk and often loss of life, loyally supported the U.S. Armed Forces (not all did, but very many did).  We left them in a lurch, cut off their military aid, and watched while they suffered the consequences when the North Vietnamese blatantly ignored the negotiated resolution (they never intended to honor) that Cronkite advocated.  

Many of those of us who served in Vietnam do not look upon its ending as reflecting “honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy.”  A compelling case can be made that we should never have sent troops to Vietnam in the first place.  But we did. And then, after nearly 60,000 U.S. deaths and countless Vietnamese casualties, we bugged out. There’s no way to put an honorable face on that unavoidable truth.

Once upon a time, I lived for awhile not far from a village called Ba Chuc in An Giang Province in the Mekong Delta.  After the U.S. evacuated Vietnam, there was nothing to stop old animosities between the Cambodians and Vietnamese from turning hot.  Here’s a description of what happened in Ba Chuc.
“On April 30, 1977, Pol Pot’s troops launched a surprise attack on 13 villages in eight Vietnamese border provinces. Ba Chuc was the hardest hit. The massacre was at its fiercest during the 12 days of occupation, April 18-30, 1978, during which the intruders killed 3,157 villagers. The survivors fled and took refuge in the pagodas of Tam Buu and Phi Lai or in caves on Mount Tuong, but they were soon discovered. The raiders shot them, slit their throats or beat them to death with sticks. Babies were flung into the air and pierced with bayonets. Women were raped and left to die with stakes planted in their genitals.”

There were two survivors to the massacre

Cronkite didn’t cover it on the CBS evening news.

As judged by subsequent events, Cronkite was wrong.  And over time, his words became a watershed marking the place where the gradual erosion of the MSM’s credibility began.  


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: credibility; cronkite; leftwingmedia; liberalmedia; vietnamwar; waltercronkite

1 posted on 06/19/2009 7:14:12 AM PDT by ETL
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To: ETL
Walter either lied or was himself misled...even with his trip over. Our American troops WON every single battle in Vietnam...EVERY SINGLE BATTLE.

And when we withdrew...millions and I mean MILLIONS were slaughtered as the communist N. Vietnamese moved fully into S. Vietnam and into next door neighbot-Cambodia.

We did not need to QUIT, we needed to RESOLVE TO WIN, something liberals can only do in elections.

Old Walter got into reporting on body bags returning instead of the actual news of the major battles, and even those were cast through the sorry lens of liberals who believe that their freedom was entirely free and that we have no responsibility to help those who yearn for freedom around the globe.

2 posted on 06/19/2009 7:20:26 AM PDT by Republic (Jedem das Seinesc)
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To: ETL

Cronkite was a traitor...is a traitor. He admits now to having always been a globalist and always working for globalism. Especially as a new anchor. He screwed the South Vietnamese and every American service person who ever served in Viet Nam and rendered useless the sacrifice made by those who died or were wounded. He stabbed the Viet Nam vet in the back.


3 posted on 06/19/2009 7:24:45 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: Republic; pgkdan

Well said. Thank you.


4 posted on 06/19/2009 7:27:49 AM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: pgkdan

You are correct and, as usual, he is a liberal hero. Whenever I see his name being used as a tribute to journalism, I want to barf.


5 posted on 06/19/2009 7:29:01 AM PDT by Hildy (In Venezuela Coke Zero is bad for your h ealth. In the U.S. Zero on Coke is bad for your healthcare.)
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To: ETL
Chronkite has made absolutely clear,in recent years,who and what he is.If he had done so *while* he was "America's Anchorman" we would have won in Vietnam because nobody would have paid any attention to him.He would have been seen as just another Olberman or Matthews."Gee,I get this thrill up my leg whenever I hear Gene McCarthy speak".

Chronkite is directly responsible for at least some of our casualties in Vietnam..as well as those among the South Vietnamese... and he's also directly responsible for the extra 10-15 years the Soviet bloc was able to stand...for if we had won in Vietnam the USSR would have fallen much sooner.

Chronkite is,no doubt,an atheist...like most prominent RATS but I'm convinced that he has a *very* unpleasant surprise in store for himself.

6 posted on 06/19/2009 7:30:23 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Christian+Veteran=Terrorist)
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To: ETL

At least Uncle Walter made it relatively clear he was giving his opinion. In today’s media outright lies and Obama White House propaganda are reported as real news slavishly “backed-up” with phony facts or outright fabrications.


7 posted on 06/19/2009 7:32:15 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." M. Thatcher)
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To: ETL
All I ever could remember from the time I was a little girl was my late, brilliant Dad referring to Cronkite as Colonel Blimp

I didn't realize how spot on that was until I was much older.

8 posted on 06/19/2009 7:32:18 AM PDT by Hildy (In Venezuela Coke Zero is bad for your h ealth. In the U.S. Zero on Coke is bad for your healthcare.)
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To: All
While we're on the subject of influential "Americans" undermining our efforts to defeat the communists in Vietnam...

"...if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned."-J.F. Kerry

"Under questioning from the Committee, Kerry referred to the democratically elected government of South Vietnam -- our allies -- as a "dictatorial regime, the Thieu-Ky-Khiem regime," while respectfully calling the North Vietnamese communist regime we were fighting by its oxymoronic official name, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, and the murderous Viet Cong's political arm by their preferred "Provisional Revolutionary Government.":
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/lindachavez/lc20040428.shtml
___________________________________________________________

June, 1970 -- Kerry joins Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), a national veterans group that is part of the Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice. The PCPJ is a broad coalition of local and national organizations, including the Communist Party, USA, "committed to conducting demonstrations aimed at ending the war in Indochina, and poverty, racism and injustice at home." The VVAW, CCI and PCPJ all have headquarters at 156 Fifth Avenue in New York City. VVAW Executive Secretary Al Hubbard, a former Black Panther, is also on the coordinating committee of the PCPJ. Hubbard soon appoints Kerry to the VVAW's Executive Committee, bypassing the normal election process.
http://www.wintersoldier.com/index.php?topic=Timeline
___________________________________________________________

Fact: The Black Panthers were revolutionary communists...

From the Maoist Internationist Movement:
[1960s/original] Black Panther Party [BPP] Archives
From the article: REVOLUTIONARY HEROS

"On May 1st, May Day [1969], the day of the gigantic Free Huey rally, two of Alioto's top executioners vamped on the brothers from the Brown Community who were attending to their own affairs. These brothers, who are endowed with the revolutionary spirit of the Black Panther Party defended themselves from the racist pig gestapo.

Pig Joseph Brodnik received his just reward with a big hole in the chest. Pig Paul McGoran got his in the mouth which was not quite enough to off him.

The revolutionary brothers escaped the huge swarm of pigs with dogs, mace, tanks and helicopters, proving once again that "the spirit of the people is greater than the man's technology."

To these brothers the revolutionary people of racist America want to say, by your revolutionary deed you are heroes, and that you are always welcome to our camp."

Source: Maoist Internationist Movement
Article: REVOLUTIONARY HEROS (May 11, 1969):
http://web.archive.org/web/20060717050055/http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/bpp/index.html
___________________________________________________________

November 22, 1970 -- During a fund-raising tour for GI deserters, Vietnam Veterans Against the War and the Black Panthers, Jane Fonda is quoted in the Detroit Free Press as telling a University of Michigan audience:

"I would think that if you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would someday become communist," and "The peace proposal of the Viet Cong is the only honorable, just, possible way to achieve peace in Vietnam."
http://www.wintersoldier.com/index.php?topic=Timeline
___________________________________________________________

Photo link: "Jane Fonda and John Kerry at an anti-war rally in Valley Forge, Pa. (Leif Skoogfors/Corbis)"
[note: we're not permitted to post this pic without permission from the photographer. this is a different photo than one at top -etl]
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp

The photo is genuine. Here is what Jane Fonda herself had to say about it:

"My reaction is that the American people have had it with the big lie. Any attempt to link Kerry to me and make him look bad with that connection is completely false. We were at a rally for veterans at the same time. I spoke, Donald Sutherland spoke, John Kerry spoke at the end. I don't even think we shook hands."

Source for quote: same snopes article linked above
___________________________________________________________


Ramsey Clark, former U.S. attorney general under democrat LBJ with convicted terrorist enabler/commie lawyer, Lynne Stewart, at an "anti-war" rally in Harlem NY on March 19, 2005, the 2nd anniversary of the start of the Iraq War. The event was organized by the Workers World Party and "Troops Out Now". TON is an "anti-war" (pro-communist) Workers World Party front group.
http://www.workers.org/march19/index2.html
___________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________

John Kerry and the VVAW--Hanoi's American Puppets?
"Two recently discovered documents captured from the Vietnamese communists during the Vietnam War strongly support the contention that a close link existed between the Hanoi regime and the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) while John Kerry served as the group's leading national spokesman."
http://www.wintersoldier.com/staticpages/index.php?page=puppets
___________________________________________________________

Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) Complete FBI files:
http://www.wintersoldier.com/index.php?topic=VVAWFBI

9 posted on 06/19/2009 7:32:25 AM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: ETL
There were two survivors to the massacre. Cronkite didn’t cover it on the CBS evening news.

What a douchebag.

10 posted on 06/19/2009 7:32:57 AM PDT by dead
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To: pgkdan

I agree. Walter cheated his large American audience night after night with his own demented bias. If ONLY I had known then what I know now.


11 posted on 06/19/2009 7:35:00 AM PDT by Republic (Jedem das Seinesc)
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To: ETL
Check out this story from the NY Post, but especially check out the reader's comments:

Cronkite

12 posted on 06/19/2009 7:35:25 AM PDT by Larry381 ("in the final instance civilization is always saved by a platoon of soldiers" Oswald Spengler)
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To: ETL
I'm no Cronkite fan, but I think I'll let him die in peace. Unlike most of the victims his kind left at the mercy of barbaric animals.
13 posted on 06/19/2009 7:35:51 AM PDT by BallyBill (Serial Hit-N-Run poster)
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To: Larry381
but especially check out the readers' comments

Thanks! Lots of great ones there!

14 posted on 06/19/2009 7:44:50 AM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Hildy
Whenever I see his name being used as a tribute to journalism, I want to barf.

You and me both.

15 posted on 06/19/2009 7:45:17 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: Republic
Cronkite turned from being a news reporter to a news critic. In my opinion, he has blood on his hands from his actions and words. Ask any Cambodian or South Vietnamese. Ask the Montagnards. Ask any soldier who fought for their freedom, and then had to desert them - often to a fate worse than death - due to Cronkite and all of the liberals who failed to see the big picture.

If Cronkite and his ilk could have their way, they would do the same to Iraq.

16 posted on 06/19/2009 7:47:54 AM PDT by Swede Girl
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To: ETL
Tet was real a “Battle of the Bulge” moment and base on the same logic...

The German did not expect to win from the battle.. it was to affect policy on the allies to get a political concession to get that stalemate....

From time and distance Tet and the Battle of the Bulge look about the same in a military perspective

Uncle Walter gave the NV what the German didn't get, that propaganda helping hand to break the will on the home front

17 posted on 06/19/2009 7:51:33 AM PDT by tophat9000 ( We are "O" so f---ed)
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To: ETL

Interesting summary and analysis.


18 posted on 06/19/2009 7:54:21 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: tophat9000
Uncle Walter gave the NV what the German didn't get, that propaganda helping hand to break the will on the home front

Thanks. That's what it's all about for these lefties in influential positions: breaking the will of the American people.

19 posted on 06/19/2009 7:59:11 AM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: ETL
Walter Cronkite and the Ivy League universities are the strongest evidence in existence that the Left is secretly run by the old Eastern Seaboard Conservative (now Liberal) Establishment ideologically descended from Alexander Hamilton (and as Hamiltonian I take absolutely no joy in saying that). Gun control advocacy is another (the government that is the alleged bet noire of the International Left is the one government the Left doesn't want overthrown).

Cronkite should demand a salary from the Birch Society.

20 posted on 06/19/2009 8:02:57 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Vayiqra' Mosheh leHoshe`a Bin-Nun Yehoshu`a.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Cronkite should demand a salary from the Birch Society.

The John Birch Society is ANTI-Communist.

21 posted on 06/19/2009 8:06:41 AM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: ETL

Until, Kerry is swinging from a yardarm for treason, Vietnam will never be over.


22 posted on 06/19/2009 8:12:12 AM PDT by depressed in 06 (For the first time, in my life, I am not proud of my country. Thanks ZerO.)
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To: ETL
The John Birch Society is ANTI-Communist.

First of all, I was a member of the Birch Society from 1977 to 1981.

Second of all, you completely missed my point. The Birch Society and the section of the Right it represents is a descendant not of traditional American conservatism (Hamiltonianism) but of the Populist and Progressive movments of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. It's villains are the same as those of the socialist Populists/Progressives: the Rockefellers, the Carnegies, the Morgans, the "international bankers," etc. The only difference is that in the Populist/Progressive days the Eastern Establishment was conservative and the heartland was socialist (William Jennings Bryan, anyone?) while today the opposite is true.

My remark about Cronkite was that he is one of the number one exhibits in the JBS claim that the Left is secretly run by the Old American Establishment--therefore they owe him a great deal.

Also you give the Birch Society too much credit. They are the number one peddlers of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories (with the word "Jew" removed) and most of the out-and-out anti-Semites started out in the Birch Society. They also numbered the notorious Revilo P. Oliver (mach shemo!) among their founders--a man whose blasphemous atheist ideology was remarkably similar to the Holocaust Museum shooter.

Finally, the Birch Society is opposed to the war in Iraq or any action against Iran because Israel might conceivably benefit. They are vehemently anti-Israel and you will be hard pressed to find one of their spokesmen who isn't hostile to Israel. In fact, some time back I visited G. Edward Griffin's web site. He rebuked an anti-Semite not for being anti-Semitic, but for making it very difficult to oppose Israel respectably.

The Birch Society is garbage. They think we fought on the wrong side in WWII.

23 posted on 06/19/2009 8:16:16 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Vayiqra' Mosheh leHoshe`a Bin-Nun Yehoshu`a.)
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To: ETL

Walter’s avuncular demeanor hid the fact that he was a raging commsymp. And his pronouncement during the news segment ushered in an era in journalism in which the messenger is the message.

It is not an improvement.


24 posted on 06/19/2009 8:25:48 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: Swede Girl
( Btw-Hi-remember mtg ya in hotel during FR sponsored dinner in DC for the House Managers, my mom and I had a great time. )

Oh yeah...old Walter is a full pledged liberal. I think that is why he always seems unhappy (ever notice that about liberals?).

You wrote ;

If Cronkite and his ilk could have their way, they would do the same to Iraq.

I agree.

How can it be that we are all Americans and yet feel so deeply different about our nation and her place in the world?

I guess, in a way, it is the press corp of America that is going to bring us down. Do they not realize their own fate?

25 posted on 06/19/2009 8:38:56 AM PDT by Republic (Jedem das Seinesc)
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To: ETL

Ping


26 posted on 06/19/2009 8:44:58 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Zionist Conspirator
The Birch Society is garbage. They think we fought on the wrong side in WWII.

I didn't know they were fans of Hitler. Do you have any linked evidence to support this?

the Birch Society is opposed to the war in Iraq or any action against Iran because Israel might conceivably benefit.

Again, any credible evidence that they are "opposed to any action against Iran because Israel might conceivably benefit"?

27 posted on 06/19/2009 9:19:43 AM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: ETL
I didn't know they were fans of Hitler. Do you have any linked evidence to support this?

Did you read what I said about Revilo P. Oliver, one of the society's founders?

Listen, I used to think the Birch Society hung the moon. But they're absolutely nuts. Their conspiracy theory is merely Nazism with the word "Jews" removed.

Again, any credible evidence that they are "opposed to any action against Iran because Israel might conceivably benefit"?

Go to their web site or the web site of their magazine, The New American.

28 posted on 06/19/2009 9:25:54 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Vayiqra' Mosheh leHoshe`a Bin-Nun Yehoshu`a.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I noticed a few times when Birchers set up recruiting tables at some gun shows. Five minutes perusing their literature convinced me they were screwballs of some kind.


29 posted on 06/19/2009 11:39:46 AM PDT by TexasRepublic
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To: TexasRepublic
I noticed a few times when Birchers set up recruiting tables at some gun shows. Five minutes perusing their literature convinced me they were screwballs of some kind.

As I said, I used to be a Bircher, and I thought they hung the moon. Boy, was I wrong!

All you need to know is that they supported the draft in the Sixties when we were fighting North Vietnam but say it was a mistake during WWII and that it's wrong today. Now what do WWII and the WOT have in common that would make a draft any worse during those wars than during the Sixties?

The Birch Society was also all for not minding our own business when it came to Central America in the Eighties. But now all of a sudden when it comes to Iraq and Iran all that has been forgotten and they're pacifists.

The Birch Society is basically a political cult of the "Reconstructionist" movement (Rushdoony, Gary North, etc.). They have also abandoned whatever Hamiltonianism they ever had for full fledged Jeffersonianism. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't believe the US Constitution were Divinely inspired.

One of their big COUNCIL members, Chuck Carlson (not to be confused with Chuck Colson) has a nasty little site called "We Hold These Truths" which contains a section called "Pharisee Watch." I'll give you one guess whom they're watching.

When there was a temporary schism a while back and some old time members started a "Robert Welch Foundation" (Robert Welch was the JBS's founder) and I wrote a couple times to protest anti-Israel positions the second reply was a screed about the "Zionist Bolsheviks" that ended up with a threat of violence toward me.

You want to know what the Birch Society believes? It's no big secret. Just go to their web sites or the web sites of big Birchers (like Carlson, G. Edward Griffin, and Alan Stang--the man who influenced me to join the JBS and who is today a full-throttle lunatic). Or just take a look at the Paulites or the "US Constitution Party" or any Cartoite organization.

The Holocaust museum shooter's first link on his site was to a collection of writings of one of the JBS eleven founders, Revilo P. Oliver, who thought religion was a cancer destroying "aryans."

30 posted on 06/19/2009 11:52:35 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Vayiqra' Mosheh leHoshe`a Bin-Nun Yehoshu`a.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
According to the following, R.P. Oliver was unhappy with the Birchers and angrily left the organization, THEN he started up his racist "white nationalist" group. He described JBS leader Welch as a 'sellout'.

From wikipedia, with loads of linked references at site...

In the 1960s, [Revilo Pendleton] Oliver supposedly broke with conventional American conservatism and, having become convinced that Welch had either cozened him from the start or sold out later, he even severed his connections with what he called "the Birch hoax." He thus came to openly embrace an essentially far-right worldview, and eventually to assist William Luther Pierce in forming the National Alliance, a White Nationalist organization, a significant portion of whose supporters and members would re-form under the name National Vanguard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revilo_Pendleton_Oliver#Biography
_______________________________

Origins:

The John Birch Society was established in Indianapolis, Indiana on December 9, 1958 by a group of twelve men led by Robert Welch, Jr., a retired candy manufacturer from Belmont, Massachusetts. One founding member was Fred Koch, founder of Koch Industries, one of the largest private corporations in America. Another was Revilo Pendleton Oliver, a University of Illinois professor who later co-founded the "white nationalist" National Alliance. A transcript of Welch's two-day presentation at the founding meeting was published as The Blue Book of the John Birch Society, and became a cornerstone of its beliefs, with each new member receiving a copy.[9]

According to Welch, "both the U.S. and Soviet governments are controlled by the same furtive conspiratorial cabal of internationalists, greedy bankers, and corrupt politicians. If left unexposed, the traitors inside the U.S. government would betray the country's sovereignty to the United Nations for a collectivist New World Order, managed by a 'one-world socialist government.'"[11][12]

Welch saw "collectivism" as the main threat to Western Civilization, and liberals as "secret communist traitors" who provide cover for the gradual process of collectivism, with the ultimate goal of replacing the nations of western civilization with one-world socialist government. "There are many stages of welfarism, socialism, and collectivism in general," he wrote, "but Communism is the ultimate state of them all, and they all lead inevitably in that direction."[12]

The society's activities include distribution of literature, pamphlets, magazines, videos and other educational material while sponsoring a Speaker's Bureau, which invites "speakers who are keenly aware of the motivations that drive political policy"[13].

One of the first public activities of the JBS was a "Get US Out!" (of membership in the UN) campaign, which claimed in 1959 that the "Real nature of [the] UN is to build a One World Government."[14] In 1960, Welch advised JBS members to: "Join your local P.T.A. at the beginning of the school year, get your conservative friends to do likewise, and go to work to take it over."[15]

One Man's Opinion, a magazine launched by Welch in 1956, was renamed American Opinion, and became the John Birch Society's official publication. The society's current publication is called The New American. [16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society#Values
_______________________________

Values:

The John Birch Society says it is anti-totalitarian, particularly anti-socialist and anti-communist, and leans to libertarian. It seeks to limit the powers of government and defends what it sees as the original intention of the U.S. Constitution, based on Judeo-Christian principles. It opposes collectivism, including wealth redistribution, economic interventionism, socialism, communism, and it also opposes non-Collectivist ideas, like fascism. In a 1983 edition of Crossfire, Congressman Larry McDonald (D-Georgia), then its newly appointed chairman, characterized the Society as belonging to the Old Right, rather than the new right.[9]

The John Birch Society opposed aspects of the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s because of its concerns that the movement had communists in important positions. At this time, however, there were more reports that Hollywood was harboring "Communists in high positions" than the Civil Rights Movement. The Society opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act, saying it was in violation of the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution and overstepped the rights of individual states to enact laws regarding civil rights.

The Society is against a unified "one world government", and has an immigration reduction view on immigration reform. It opposes the United Nations, the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the Central America Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA), the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA), and other free trade agreements.

The Society argues that there is a devaluing of the US Constitution in favor of international government, and that this is not an accident. It cites David Rockefeller's 2002 autobiography Memoirs in which Rockefeller writes, "Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure — one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society#Values

31 posted on 06/19/2009 1:13:22 PM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: ETL
I'm a former Bircher. What can you possibly tell me?

They were for intervention in South America in the Eighties, but they're against intervention when Israel might possibly benefit. Plus they're totally in the tank for Rushdoonyite "Reconstructionism."

Almost every anti-Semite of the past fifty years has spent time in the Birch Society being fed conspiracy theory, then when they drew the logical conclusion (that the Jews were behind it all) the Society put on a big show of kicking them out.

I'm not going to argue with you. If you want to admire the Birch Society, go right ahead. I know they are detestable.

32 posted on 06/19/2009 1:17:26 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Vayiqra' Mosheh leHoshe`a Bin-Nun Yehoshu`a.)
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To: ETL

As a veteran of the Vietnam War from August of 1969 to January of 1971, serving as an infantry squad leader in a mechanized infantry company, and with another unit as a tank commander on an M48A3 tank; I am keenly interested in the distortions, lies, and half truths perpetuated about the Vietnam war by many of those who helped to undermine the US effort there. Much of the conventional understanding of the US involvement in the South East Asian conflict indicates a general disapproval of the United States war effort, and an acceptance of the oft regurgitated leftist conventional wisdom as to it’s historical course and outcome. That is painting the American war effort in Vietnam as misguided at best and an imperialistic effort to establish SE Asian capitalistic hegemony at worst. The antiwar left is portrayed as being noble and idealistic rather than populated by a hard core that actively hoped and worked for a US defeat, the US government as destructive of basic civil liberties in its attempt to monitor their activities, and the North Vietnamese and Vietcong as nationalists who wished to preserve their unique culture against an imperialistic onslaught. The South Vietnamese government’s struggle to survive a ruthless Communist assault while engaging in an unwarranted assault on human rights .while ignoring the numerous genocidal atrocities of the Vietcong (VC) and North Vietnamese Army (NVA) is also part of this narrative. The deceptive reporting of the Tet Offensive, the Communist’s worse defeat among numberless hundreds of others was probably the most grievous deceit perpetuated by the Press .

The reason that the United States opposed nationwide elections that were to be held in accordance with the 1954 Geneva accords was due to the murder and intimidation campaigns carried out by Ho Chi Minh. This fact is in Professor R. J. Runnel’s book Death by Government, in which he cites a low estimate of 15,000 and a high figure of 500,000 people in the “murder by quota” campaign directed by the North Vietnamese Communist Party Politburo that would have made the election a corrupt mockery. This campaign stipulated that 5% of the people living in each village and hamlet had to be liquidated, preferably those identified as members of the “ruling class.” All told says Runnel, between 1953 and 1956 it is likely that the Communists killed 195,000 to 865,000 North Vietnamese. These were non combatant men, women, and children, and hardly represent evidence of the moral high ground claimed by many in the antiwar movement. In 1956, high Communist official Nguyen Manh Tuong admitted that “while destroying the landowning class, we condemned numberless old people and children to a horrible death.” The same genocidal pattern became the Communists’ standard operating procedure in the South too. This was unequivocally demonstrated by the Hue Massacre, which the press did a great deal to downplay in its reporting of the Tet Offensive of 1968.

The National Liberation Front was the creation of the North Vietnamese Third Party Congress of September 1960, completely directed from North Vietnam. The Tet Offensive of 1968 was a disastrous military defeat for the North Vietnamese and that the VC were almost wiped out by the fighting, and that it took the NVA until 1971 to reestablish a presence using North Vietnamese troops as local guerrillas. The North Vietnam military senior commanders repeatedly said that they counted on the U.S. antiwar movement to give them the confidence to persevere in the face of their staggering battlefield personnel losses and defeats. The antiwar movement prevented the feckless President Lyndon Johnson from granting General Westmoreland’s request to enter Laos and cut the Ho Chi Minh Trail or end his policies of publicly announced gradualist escalation. The North Vietnamese knew cutting this trail would severely damage their ability to prosecute the war. Since the North Vietnamese could continue to use the Ho Chi Minh Trail lifeline, the war was needlessly prolonged for the U.S. and contributed significantly to the collapse of South Vietnam. The casualties sustained by the NVA and VC were horrendous, (1.5 million dead) and accorded well with Gen. Ngyuen Giap’s publicly professed disdain for the lives of individuals sacrificed for the greater cause of Communist victory. They were as thoroughly beaten as a military force can be given the absence of an invasion and occupation of their nation. The Soviets and Chinese recognized this, and they put pressure on their North Vietnamese allies to accept this reality and settle up at the Paris peace talks. Hanoi’s party newspaper Nhan Dan angrily denounced the Chinese and Soviets for “throwing a life bouy to a drowning pirate” and for being “mired on the dark and muddy road of unprincipled compromise.” The North Viets intransigent attitude toward negotiation was reversed after their air defenses were badly shattered in the wake of the devastating B-52 Linebacker II assault on North Vietnam, after which they were totally defenseless against American air attack.

To this day the anti-war movement as a whole refuses to acknowledge its part in the deaths of millions in Laos and Cambodia and in the subsequent exodus from South East Asia as people fled Communism, nor the imprisonment of thousands in Communist re-education camps and gulags.

South Vietnam was NOT defeated by a local popular insurgency. The final victorious North Vietnamese offensive was a multidivisional, combined arms effort lavishly equipped with Soviet and Chinese supplied tanks, self-propelled artillery, and aircraft. It was the type of blitzkrieg that Panzer General Heinz Guederian would have easily recognized. I didn’t recall seeing any barefoot, pajama-clad guerrillas jumping out of those tanks in the newsreel footage that showed them crashing through the gates of the presidential palace in Saigon. This spectacle was prompted by the pusillanimous withdrawal of Congressional support for the South Vietnamese government in the wake of the Watergate scandal, which particularly undermined this aspect of President Nixon’s foreign policy. It should be noted that a similar Communist offensive in the spring of 1972 was smashed, largely by US air power; with relatively few US ground troops in place. At the Paris Accords in 1973, the Soviet Union had agreed to reduce aid in offensive arms to North Vietnam in exchange for trade concessions from the US, effectively ending North Vietnams hopes for a military victory in the south. With the return of cold war hostilities in the wake of the Yom Kippur war after Congress revoked the Soviet’s MFN trading status, the Reds poured money and offensive military equipment into North Vietnam. South Vietnam would still be a viable nation today were it not for this nation’s refusal to live up to it’s treaty obligations to the South Vietnamese, most important to reintervene should they invade South Vietnam.

There is one primary similarity to Vietnam. A seditious near traitorous core of anti-war protesters is trying to undermine U.S. efforts there with half-truths, lies, and distortions. In that respect, the war in Iraq and the war in Vietnam are very similar. A significant difference is that thus far the current anti-war movement has not succeeded in manifesting contempt for the American military on the part of the general U.S. public as it did in the Vietnam era.

When I was in Vietnam, I recall many discussions with my fellow soldiers about the course of the war in Vietnam and their feelings about it. Many, if not most felt that “We Gotta Get Outta this Place,” to cite a popular song of the time by Eric Burden and the Animals, but for the most part they felt we should do it by fighting the war in a manner calculated to win it. I do not recall anyone ever saying that they felt the North Vietnamese could possibly defeat us on the battlefield, but to a man they were mystified by the U.S. Government’s refusal to fight in a manner that would assure military victory. Even though there was much resentment for the antiwar movement, and some (resentment) toward career professional soldiers, I never saw anyone who did not do his basic duty and many did FAR MORE THAN THAT as a soldier. Nineteen of my friends have their names on the Vietnam War Memorial Wall in Washington DC. They deserve to have the full truth told about the effort for which they gave their young lives. The U.S. public is not well served by half-truths and lies by omission about such a significant period in our history, particularly with their relevance toward our present fight in Iraq and Afghanistan.


33 posted on 06/21/2009 6:45:29 PM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: DMZFrank

Thanks, Frank! I’ll read your post more carefully tomorrow. About ready to go to bed now. Looks like another great one from you.


34 posted on 06/21/2009 7:10:17 PM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: DMZFrank

Just, Thank You.


35 posted on 06/21/2009 7:12:53 PM PDT by Dust in the Wind (Lord protect us from our overseers)
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To: DMZFrank

BTTT


36 posted on 06/21/2009 7:58:54 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Government needs a Keelhauling now and then.)
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To: DMZFrank
The North Vietnam military senior commanders repeatedly said that they counted on the U.S. antiwar movement to give them the confidence to persevere in the face of their staggering battlefield personnel losses and defeats. The antiwar movement prevented the feckless President Lyndon Johnson from granting General Westmoreland’s request to enter Laos and cut the Ho Chi Minh Trail or end his policies of publicly announced gradualist escalation. The North Vietnamese knew cutting this trail would severely damage their ability to prosecute the war. Since the North Vietnamese could continue to use the Ho Chi Minh Trail lifeline, the war was needlessly prolonged for the U.S. and contributed significantly to the collapse of South Vietnam.

Excellent piece of writing once again, Frank! I would (or could, not having served myself) only add that the "anti-war" movement in the U.S. then, like today, was led by groups and individuals who were/are PRO-communist. Most of the marchers, similarly like today, were just easily manipulated dupes who really hadn't a clue what was going down. They simply saw war as violent and wanted an end to it, without any understanding of the occasional necessity for it. They were brainwashed by left-wing, communist-sympathizing 'teachers' at school, countless musicians and other entertainers drumming 'anti-war' messages into their heads, and left-wing 'news reporters' like Cronkite who continually mangled the truth in order to sway public opinion against the war and a U.S. victory. They were rarely, if ever, informed of the oppression and brutality of communism.

PS: I don't know whether or not you write professionally, but if you don't, you damn well should! Seriously. America needs people like you to get this message out to future generations. You would also be excellent, no doubt, doing public speaking tours at colleges and universities, assuming you can find a few that wouldn't turn their back on you.
___________________________________________________

"'The Black Book of Communism,'; a scholarly accounting of communism’s crimes, counts about 94 million murdered by the supposed champions of the common man (20 million for the Soviets alone), and some say that number is too low."

Forgetting the Evils of Communism: The amnesia bites a little deeper
By Jonah Goldberg, August 2008:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmY0MjI1MDgyYjg1M2UwNDMzMTk2Mjk5YTk0ZTdlMWE=

37 posted on 06/22/2009 4:16:41 AM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: DMZFrank
The National Liberation Front was the creation of the North Vietnamese Third Party Congress of September 1960, completely directed from North Vietnam.

Weather Underground Organization linked to North Vietnamese and Cuban governments, KGB (my title)
[420 pages in all on pdf]

Source: FBI, via Freedom of Information Act

In 1976, the FBI's Chicago Field Office prepared a summary which described the activities of the Weather Underground Organization, also known as Weathermen. This organization described itself as a revolutionary organization of communist men and women. The FBI's analysis of its motivations, beliefs, and international travels are outlined in this summary.

[some excerpts from the 1976 report linking the organization to foreign governments...]

From the moment in October, 1967, when Radio Hanoi announced the formation of the South Vietnamese Peoples Committee for Solidarity with American People (by the National Liberation Front (NLF), the political arm of the Viet Cong) with the objective of establishing relations with "progressive organizations and individuals in the United States," a political front was enjoined in behalf of the national interests of the Democratic Republic of North Vietnam (DRV) (and the NLF), the purpose of which was to intensify the anti-war sentiment in the United States.

From the initial meeting between the Vietnamese and leading anti-war activists held in Bratislava, Czechoslovakia, in November, 1967, to the July, 1969, meeting with leading Weatherpeople held in Havana, Cuba, the influence of Vietnamese representatives on the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) leadership became sharply pronounced. At the same time, the example of the Cuban revolution became the guide for the emerging American student revolutionary. With an increasing number of trips to Havana where the youthful revolutionary could learn at first hand how to create revolution, the influence of Cuba on the developing WUO [Weather Underground Organization] was enormous.

The WUO obtained their revolutionary methodology from the Cubans and Vietnamese and, importantly, put into practice what they had learned from them. The Weathermen, of course, did not just happen to come about during the June, 1969, SDS National Convention. They fully admit their radical heritage began during experiences gained in SDS and as shown herein their international contacts with representatives of the DRV and NLF which began in 1967 increased their anti-imperialist consciousness so that by 1969 they had solidified their revolutionary commitment to include the maximum optimum of armed struggle. So, when Huynh Van Ba, representative of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of Vietnam (PRG), instructed the WUO to "look for the person who fights hardest against the cops...Don't look for the one who says the best thing. Look for the one who fights," the campus base was forgotten and the WUO began to recruit the greasers and assorted oddments who had displayed their hatred of authority in direct combat with police.

Source: FBI
http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/weather.htm

38 posted on 06/22/2009 4:35:47 AM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: DMZFrank
Just got a chance to read your post (and thanks for sending it me via freepmail.)

Extremely insightful and very well written. It's a ridiculous additional burden on our military that the leftwing media impose. They are clearly on the other side, and have been since about 1966, in the war to win over the hearts and minds of our people.

And the fact that there is such a significant portion of our country that can be lead around by the enemies of freedom is distressing.

Thanks again for the ping, and thanks so much for your service. A VERY significant portion of this country recognizes and very much appreciates what you and all other military personnel do for this country. Just not many of us work in the media, I guess.

39 posted on 06/23/2009 7:29:21 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: ETL

Thank you for the kudos, and spread the word so all will know the shameful nature of the Communist “victory” in collusion with our home grown seditionists and the honor, yes even glory attendant to most of the American troops who served there.


40 posted on 06/23/2009 6:05:37 PM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: All
Forgot this one...

It relates to an earlier one I posted.

From David Horowitz's FrontPageMag.com/DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
"FBI files from 1976, recently made public under the Freedom of Information Act, confirm the connections between Weatherman, Havana, and Moscow. Weatherman leaders like Mark Rudd traveled illegally to Havana in 1968 to engage in terrorist training. There, camps set up by Soviet KGB Colonel Vadim Kotchergine were educating Westerners both in Marxist philosophy and urban warfare."
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6808

41 posted on 06/23/2009 6:18:20 PM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: DMZFrank

A BTT for your outstanding post.


42 posted on 06/23/2009 6:25:53 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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