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To: Dead Corpse

That’s very interesting and all, but it just ignores the debates that went on in Congress. Madison proposed amendments that would have bound the states. They were voted down. There was great argument over this. Those that wanted to bind the states lost.

I suggest that you read the debates surrounding the introduction of these amendments in Congress.


16 posted on 07/01/2009 1:35:54 PM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: Publius Valerius
That’s very interesting and all, but it just ignores the debates that went on in Congress.

Not according to what I've read in Elliot's. Or was all that talk of "inalienable Rights of Man" and "gift from the Supreme Author that no mere earthly agency has a power to revoke" just bluff and bluster?

You'd better cough up a link to the pertinent chapter in Elliot's to support your contention.

Something like this would probably work:

The difficulties which present themselves are on one side almost sufficient to dismay the most sanguine, whilst on the other side the most timid are compelled to encounter them by the mortal diseases of the existing constitution. These diseases need not be pointed out to you who so well understand them. Suffice it to say that they are at present marked by symptoms which are truly alarming, which have tainted the faith of the most orthodox republicans, and which challenge from the votaries of liberty every concession in favor of stable Government not infringing fundamental principles, as the only security against an opposite extreme of our present situation. I think myself that it will be expedient in the first place to lay the foundation of the new system in such a ratification by the people themselves of the several States as will render it clearly paramount to their Legislative authorities. 2dly. Over & above the positive power of regulating trade and sundry other matters in which uniformity is proper, to arm the federal head with a negative in all cases whatsoever on the local Legislatures. Without this defensive power experience and reflection have satisfied me that however ample the federal powers may be made, or however Clearly their boundaries may be delineated, on paper, they will be easily and continually baffled by the Legislative sovereignties of the States. The effects of this provision would be not only to guard the national rights and interests against invasion, but also to restrain the States from thwarting and molesting each other, and even from oppressing the minority within themselves by papermoney and other unrighteous measures which favor the interest of the majority. - James Madison to Thomas Jefferson. Letters of Delegates to Congress: Volume 24 November 6, 1786-February 29, 1788

"The great object is, that every man be armed.... Every one who is able may have a gun." -Patrick Henry (Elliot p.3:386)

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow-citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." - Tenche Coxe (introduction to his discussion, and support, of the 2nd Amend) "Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution" Philadelphia Federal Gazette, 18 June 1789, pg.2

And of course this one again...

The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretence by a state legislature. But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both. William Rawle on the Second Amendment

IOW... It's your contention that needs a bit more propping up.

19 posted on 07/01/2009 1:50:41 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Publius Valerius; ml/nj; Dead Corpse
As proposed (In part) by Madison on June 8, 1789:

Fifthly.

That in article 2st, section 10, between clauses 1 and 2, be inserted this clause, to wit:

No state shall violate the equal rights of conscience, or the freedom of the press, or the trial by jury in criminal cases.

Now compare with the language of the first and sixth - which do not include the "No state" language. Why, if the Bill of Rights was intended to limit state Constitutions?

23 posted on 07/01/2009 2:27:42 PM PDT by frithguild (Can I drill your head now?)
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