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To: Houghton M.
What the heck are you talking about? Of course honor is needed in public service. Feudalism is not generally a word used to describe honorable governance. No one uses it for that.

Per dictionary.com...
feu·dal·ism (fyōōd'l-Ä­z'É™m) n. A political and economic system of Europe from the 9th to about the 15th century, based on the holding of all land in fief or fee and the resulting relation of lord to vassal and characterized by homage, legal and military service of tenants, and forfeiture. A political, economic, or social order resembling this medieval system.

As you can see it is a term used to describe a system where by one class of people owns and controls the land and the underclasses support and server them. Also the upper classes are mutually supporting through various bonds of loyalty. This perfectly describes a a system where by cops have the ability to abuse regular citizens. The citizens have only a feeble ability to address grievances and the other members of the over caste mutually protect each other. Sure the IDEA of honor and what was rampant in the medieval system but that does not change that if a Lord abused a peasant the peasant had little or no recourse and the other Lords would help him cover it up.

That is what I said. I have no idea what you are talking about with "you take a shotgun blast at all exercise of power." or "You are the romantic because you limpwristedly wave your hand at the problem instead of analyzing it"

I am not talking about all use of power or authority. I was simply stating that a use of power by a protected class of people can be likened to Feudalism by the standard definition of the word. Trying to flower things up with honor is irrelevant to my point. It is not about "honor and loyalty and virtue and decency". My point was not about those concepts. It is about the rule of law and accountability. Without those 'honor' and 'loyalty' only mean what the ruling class decides they mean.


78 posted on 07/20/2009 8:29:47 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: TalonDJ

The heart of your dictionary definition is feudum. Which means “faith,” meaning trust.

Even today, land held in “fee simple” is held in fief, in feudum. “Fee” comes from feudum.

It’s the idea that you don’t own your land outright and absolutely. That’s actually still true today (eminent domain).

You have only a dictionary defintion that employs words you don’t understand. Then you read into it all the negative stereotypes you have from the movies and the Black Legend view of the “feudal dark ages.”

What I described is what historians know about how it actually functioned.

A peasant was not personally free but he could not be thrown off his land. The land belonged to his lord but not absolutely. The peasant had a right to sit on that land and farm it. He paid rent from the produce to the lord. The lord could not arbitrarily abuse the peasant—the peasant had legal recourse against it. The lord was obligated by feudum, honor, faith to defend the peasant against outside powerful lords.

Did this work perfectly? No. Plenty of lords abused their peasants. But both lord and peasant had rights enshrined in law, customary law, not whim-law created by nobles.

They had far more legal protection than Soviet citizens or German citizens had under modern bureaucratic totalitarianism. We have not yet reached that stage in this country but we no longer are governed by honorable, virtuous elites either. And the prevailing theory of law is a 100 times worse than what governed peasant-lord relations in the “feudal age” because they believed in ancient custom rooted in a God who would damn to hell those who abused trust/feudum, who abused power.

We don’t.

That is, our elites don’t

believe in such a God. And they have no sense of honor, only “what can I get away with.”

Feudum/fee in your dictionary definition is the key to all this.

But you have it in your head that the feudal system was totally arbitrary sheer naked power by nobles.

That’s garbage, historically. But you don’t know it because you only know what the MSM and the movies have to say about “feudal Dark Ages.”

Am I advocating a return to the Middle Ages? Of course not.

The American system as originally established is about as good as it gets but it depended on virtuous elites running it. It was not rule by the mob or the commmoners. It was rule by noblesse oblige gentry like Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton. The problem is not rule by elites. The problem is rule by power-abusing, dishonorable elites.

And that’s always been the problem, no matter what degree of kingship, nobility, market, mercantile, barter system of politics and economics prevailed. All such systems can be reasonably fair and just or horribly unjust.

And we lost our system a generation or two ago when we shifted from noblesse oblige FDR’s technocrats. Read Amity Schlaes, The Forgotten Man. If I had a choice, I’d choose medieval feudalism over what we’ve had since FDR. But I don’t have a choice, so I hope to recover the Nobles envisioned by Adams, Washington, Lincoln, men who lived by virtue and honor.

I have very little optimism that this will happen but I will continue, in faith, to hope.


83 posted on 07/20/2009 8:43:54 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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