For Mature Audiences Only

American Thinker ^ | July 21, 2009 | Randy Fardal

[2ndDivisionVet]

I say bring back the property ownership requirement with an exception for military veterans or go with Robert Heinlein's "veteran only" voting from Starship Troopers.

[ketsu]

America has a high "breakup value". In a doomsday scenario, the country would be reorganized into two nations, just as is being proposed for Israel. Leftists might migrate to a nation of settlements in the Northeast, with all the corruption and squalor of Cold War East Berlin. The rest of America then would be liberated to flourish in freedom and prosperity

Leftism is a process, not a steady state. Every state has its discontents and that vents into left wing movements. Done right leftism acts as a pressure relief valve, letting unhappy members of society vent and become more productive.

Getting rid of the liberals will only help in the short run. Until you figure out what the causes of liberalism are, you'll always have liberals.

[SAMWolf]

I second that!

Or raise the voting age to 21 and allow the military to vote at 18. That takes care of the “Old enough to fight, old enough to vote” (Only those who actually “fight” get to vote at 18)

[Charles Martel]

Arlen Specter and Jim Jeffords come to mind.

Those two did not belatedly mature into Leftists, that is what they were all along. They simply dropped the pretense of being in any way conservative.

[Condor51]

A Psychology Today story says coddling can lead to "endless adolescence":

No kidding. Just take a look at DU.

The DUmmies all live in mommies basement, are surrounded by empty pizza boxes and post from their Commodore 64 which is connected to a 14.4K modem.

[RipSawyer]

A young woman recently posted something on FR about her friends wanting to know why she married so early...at 27! There was a time when many women were grandmothers at that age or shortly after! I replied to her that I recall having a woman asked me what was wrong with me because I didn’t have a wife and children...at 23! When I was in high school we had student bus drivers who did an admirable job, the minimum age for a driver was 16. Contrary to what might be expected today they did not wreck the buses every day, the state saved a lot of money, they paid the student drivers thirty five dollars a month.

I suspect the problem is less one of at what age the brain naturally develops and more one of the brain having no demands made on it. A child will remain a child if society never demands adulthood.

At 14 on the farm I was expected to do man size jobs after school, on weekends and during summer “vacation”. I was already becoming a problem solver and figuring things out for myself. Now I have a 34 year old stepson with a university degree who is working at a part-time job, is unmarried and will probably stay that way and can’t figure out how to do the simplest little task without being shown how to do it.

[ansel12]

But the fact is that while being 18 means you can hold a gun and shoot it where you are told, it does not follow that you have the capability to judge what should be shot at.
Btw, the draft ended about that same time, but the voting age was lowered anyway

I would like to raise the age but you are wrong on both counts. GIs between the ages of 17 to 21 have a lot of responsibility and for some of them the judgement required of them will be higher than what they encounter in their civilian jobs during the rest of their life.

The draft ended almost two years after the voting age change.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

On topic, but actually not - I think there should be a higher minimum age for all offices, from the presidency on down. Not so much because of brain maturity, but because if you can't get into politics until you are 40 years old you have to have a life before you become a politician.

[thulldud]

I am not wrong. If the voting age had been changed only for military veterans, then you would have a point. But that was not the goal.

[ansel12]

You were wrong in your insult to the military, your claim was wrong about what responsibilities that enlisted men face.

You were wrong that the draft ended about the same time.

[thulldud]

I repeat, I was not wrong.

Political changes don't happen all in a minute; both the voting age and the draft were Nixon projects, and they happened in a realistic time frame.

As for your claiming that I insult the military...I have not the words.

[timm22]

Our U.S. Armed Forces are voluntary now. If you're not a member of the U.S. Armed Forces, you shouldn't be voting until at least 25 years old, if not older. Look at who the young knuckleheads elected.

Even with a voluntary military we still allow people to enlist at the age of 18 (or 17 with parental consent).

I think a good argument can be made that 18 year old's are closer to being children then they are to being adults. Of course, we don't allow children to enlist. Not even if the child wants to, and not even if we think a stint in the military would be good for the child. If 18 year old's really *are* kids then the minimum enlistment age should be raised.

If 18 year old's are not wise enough to help choose our elected leaders, nor even wise enough to be allowed to buy a beer, how could they be competent enough to sign several years of their life away to Uncle Sam ?

[fr_freak]

I don’t think subjecting a large portion of the population which has reached the age of majority and committed no crime to an oligarchical rule is the solution to the problem.

It would hardly be oligarchical rule, anymore than it is now. Anyone can be a property owner, and most can be veterans. An actual oligarchy would be rule by a few, which is then usually passed down through heredity. How many property owners do we have now? How many veterans? How many people can become either?

[ansel12]

There was roughly a two year time separation and a presidential election between the 18 year old vote and the end of the draft.

I find this (below) dismissive and insulting of soldiers (including Corporals and Sergeants that range in age from 18 to 21.

"But the fact is that while being 18 means you can hold a gun and shoot it where you are told, it does not follow that you have the capability to judge what should be shot at."

[timm22]

I think we should allow property owners and veterans to vote. Nobody else.

Would anything besides real property count to qualify one as a "property owner"?

What if the property was acquired by gift, inheritance, or some kind of settlement? Would that person still get to vote?

[thulldud]

It is neither dismissive nor insulting, and I ask that you refrain from pinging me further about this matter. Not many things get my dander up, especially online, but the reiteration of your false perceptions certainly does.

I wish you a good day.

[fr_freak]

Would anything besides real property count to qualify one as a "property owner"?

What if the property was acquired by gift, inheritance, or some kind of settlement? Would that person still get to vote?

This is all pie in the sky stuff, and so pointless to talk about the fine details at this time, but for the sake of argument, I'd say keep it simple: it doesn't matter how you got it. If you own real property (and only real estate - cars, boats, computers, etc. don't count) you can vote. The fact that you own the property is enough to give you a stake in things. That was always the idea. As it is now, welfare rats for for democRats because they raise taxes on OTHER people to give to the welfare rats. But if the same people voting were the ones affected by taxes, the outcomes would be much different.

[ansel12]

Your portrayal of the duties and responsibilities of 18 to 21 year old men in their first or sometimes second enlistment was dismissive.

[thulldud]

I portrayed nothing about such duties. My statement envisioned political decisions onlym which is what voting is about. I say again, I do not wish to discuss this with you.

At least, not today.

[RichInOC]

Okay, I turned 18 in ‘82, and I wasn’t an idiot. (Well, not politically, anyway.)