Is this really it? (re: possible Obama's Kenyan B.C. - Attny Taitz) Click on the link

orlytaitzesq.com ^ | 8/2/2009 | rxsid

[faucetman]

“The only constitutional requirements for eligibility to be president are birth within the United States, being age 35 or above and having 14 years residence in the United States. PERIOD”

And with that statement James has repealed Article II, Section 1, Clause 5.

[jamese777]

“The only constitutional requirements for eligibility to be president are birth within the United States, being age 35 or above and having 14 years residence in the United States. PERIOD”

And with that statement James has repealed Article II, Section 1, Clause 5.

---

Actually, I have quoted Article 2, Section 1 exactly and precisely.
But don’t take my word for it, read it for yourself here:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleii.html

[faucetman]

Clause 5: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Constitution.html

not a Cornell website, but a government website

[BP2]

What's REALLY ironic is that BOTH McCain (definitely) and Obama (unconfirmed, but likely) may BOTH
had been born on territory owned via a "land lease".

McCain, born in Panama in 1936, was born not on American territory, but on land that was leased by the US until surrendered in 1999.
I do not wish to debate this topic regarding McCain, but here's more on that for those who haven't seen it:
Why Senator John Mccain Cannot Be President -- Eleven Months and a Hundred Yards Short of Citizenship -- by Gabriel J. Chin (FINAL)

The area surrounding Mombasa was also leased, by the UK, until surrendered in 1963.
Kenya CONTINUED to lease the same land from the Sultan of Zanzibar, thus Obama MAY actually
be a native born citizen of Zanzibar! This MAY be an explanation as to why tracking down his
paperwork may be difficult to find in Kenya.

Here's my proof on the LEASE from my own research (this is NOT in the history books).

First, find Mombasa on THIS map (bottom right):

Next, see here on this HARD TO FIND reference on this subject:

Finally, this is from an Official Kenyan Report on this matter:

The Constitution of Kenya Review Commission - [Cached Version]
Published on: 9/1/2002

Robertson further recommended that the British Government abrogate the 1895 Agreement with the Sultan of Zanzibar
and that another Agreement be made between the Government of Kenya and the Sultan of Zanzibar whereby the Sultan of Zanzibar
will surrender his Sovereignty claims over the Coastal strip in consideration of the Kenya Government undertaking to respect
and safeguarding inter alia the maintenance of the Sharia Law for Muslims and the retention of the Kadhi’s Courts.
...

On the 5th October 1963, the said Agreement was actually executed in the form
of an exchange of letters between the Prime Ministers of Kenya and
Zanzibar Messrs Jomo Kenyatta and M. Shamte respectively.

SO, Obama may ACTUALLY be a native born citizen of Zanzibar,
with the records of his birth retained within the Muslim Kadhi Court system!

FYI: Kadhi courts deal with divorce, marriage and inheritance cases (proved via a birth certificate)
in the Muslim community. A Muslim who commits a crime that cannot be handled by the Kadhi courts
is punished according to Kenyan law. So information on Obama SR may be there, as well as a marriage
certificate if Obama SR and Ann Dunham were married there in Feb 1961.

[afraidfortherepublic]

Very interesting. Can you get that info to someone in a position to do something about it?

[BP2]

That’s why I post findings here, but I’ll send it to various folks. Please also forward it to others who are tracking this issue ...

[rxsid]

Since there is no proof to the contrary, Barry remains a British citizen TODAY.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/18352802/Kerchner-v-Obama-Congress-Advertorial-Wash-Times-20090810-pg-89-Obama-is-a-Brit

[MestaMachine]

Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:44:33 AM · 7,194 of 8,487
MestaMachine to BP2
I agree, and after having destroyed my eyesight reading not only this thread, but everything elsr from here to Zanzibar, I am putting all but one egg in this basket.
I am saving the last one for breakfast.
*************
Zanzibar seems to be the key.

[jamese777]

Clause 5: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Constitution.html

not a Cornell website, but a government website

---

Thank you for confirming that both links have the exact same wording.
There is no US Supreme Court decision in the history of the republic that defines a “natural born citizen” in any way other than a person who was born in the United States (citizen at birth).
A precedent setting case that ruled that a person born in the United States is a Natural Born Citizen is Lynch v. Clarke, 3 N.Y.Leg.Obs. 236, 1 Sand. Ch. 583 (1844)

Summary of Case:
“The defendant, Julia Lynch, was born in the City of New York in 1819, of alien (Irish) parents, during their temporary sojourn in that city. She returned with them the same year, to their native country, and always resided there afterwards. It was held that she was a citizen of the United States.” [NYLO at 236].
Excerpt:
“5. It is a necessary consequence, from what I have stated, that the law which had prevailed on this subject, in all the states, became the governing principle or common law of the United States ....[I]t follows, in the absences of a declaration to the contrary, that the principle which prevailed and was the law on such point in all the states, became immediately the governing principle and rule of law thereon in the nation formed by such union. ... If there had been any diversity on the subject in the state laws ... it is reasonable to believe that the framers of the constitution would have borne in mind, and enacted a uniform rule, or authorized Congress to establish one. The entire silence of the constitution in regard to it furnishes a strong confirmation, not only that the existing law of the states was entirely uniform, but that there was no intention to abrogate or change it. The term citizen, was used in the constitution as a word, the meaning of which was already established and well understood. And the constitution itself contains a direct recognition of the subsisting common law principle, in the section which defines the qualification of the President. “No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President,” ... The only standard which then existed, of a natural born citizen, was the rule of the common law, and no different standard has been adopted since. Suppose a person should be elected President who was native born, but of alien parents, could there be any reasonable doubt that he was eligible under the constitution? I think not. The position would be decisive in his favor that by the [247] rule of the common law, in force when the constitution was adopted, he is a citizen.” [NYLO at 246-47; italics in original].—Supreme Court of the state of New York (1844).

[David]

The area surrounding Mombasa was also leased, by the UK, until surrendered in 1963. Kenya CONTINUED to lease the same land from the Sultan of Zanzibar, thus Obama MAY actually be a native born citizen of Zanzibar! This MAY be an explanation as to why tracking down his paperwork may be difficult to find in Kenya. Here's my proof on the LEASE from my own research (this is NOT in the history books).

Robertson further recommended that the British Government abrogate the 1895 Agreement with the Sultan of Zanzibar and that another Agreement be made between the Government of Kenya and the Sultan of Zanzibar whereby the Sultan of Zanzibar will surrender his Sovereignty claims over the Coastal strip in consideration of the Kenya Government undertaking to respect and safeguarding inter alia the maintenance of the Sharia Law for Muslims and the retention of the Kadhi’s Courts. ... On the 5th October 1963, the said Agreement was actually executed in the form of an exchange of letters between the Prime Ministers of Kenya and Zanzibar Messrs Jomo Kenyatta and M. Shamte respectively.

OK well how do you get by the October 1963 letter agreement--according to some source which has now been erased or edited, the form of those letters was that Zanzibar ceded control and released any claim of sovereignty over the Coast Province to "the Republic of Kenya" which Republic of Kenya did not then exist?

One thing I didn't do was pull up the documents establishing Republic of Kenya--you don't suppose that the rest of Kenyatta was surrendered and attached to the ten mile strip that had previously been the Coast Province of Zanzibar which had been really established as the "Republic of Kenya" by the October 1963 agreement.

Pretty clearly the form of those letter agreements is why the birth certificate recites the place that was issuing the certificate as the "Republic of Kenya" in February 1964.

And no, I don't think the McCain deal is similar because the lease was to the US--so that is being seized as an excuse to call him "sort of a natural born citizen"--if it were leased to Zanzibar or the Republic of Kenya, no one would say that.

And the hospital in Colon was clearly outside the zone.

[rxsid]

"What do you think “natives” and “indigenes” mean if not natural born”?"

T.E. is indeed trying to ofucate the truth.

The Original French text:

Translating the french text: "les naturels, ou indigenes, sont ceux qui sont nes dans le pays, de parents citoyens"

To English, gives this: "the natural, or indigenous, are those born in the country, parents who are citizens"

Furthermore, Blackstone has this to say:

“all children, born out of the king’s ligeance, whose fathers were natural-born subjects, are now natural-born subjects themselves, to all intents and purposes, without any exception;”

Coupled with no known action of Barry renouncing his born with allegiance to the crown...he continues to be British to this day (see Blackstone).

So no matter which way someone try's to explain this thing...Barry WAS and IS British BY BIRTH.

b.t.w. I've no doubt that the framers were specifically referring to Vattel, as he's the only one who defined the term that appears in our Constitution.

[BP2]

OK well how do you get by the October 1963 letter agreement--according to some source which has now been erased or edited, the form of those letters was that Zanzibar ceded control and released any claim of sovereignty over the Coast Province to "the Republic of Kenya" which Republic of Kenya did not then exist?

The republic of Kenya did not FORMALLY exist in 1963, except possibly for the 10-mile strip itself, when it became a "sovereign state" before (the rest of) Kenya became independent on Dec 12, 1963.

IT IS UNIQUE. This would explain how the "Republic of Kenya" might have existed before Dec 12, 1964, as just the 10-Mile Strip as a "sovereign state" -- they did not want to be annexed (back) by Zanzibar if they changed their mind after the Brits loosened their grip. Look at the archive of the Kenyan 2002 report -- it talks about the fact the Brits were concerned the locals would renege on their pre-independence agreements.

you don't suppose that the rest of Kenyatta was surrendered and attached to the ten mile strip that had previously been the Coast Province of Zanzibar which had been really established as the "Republic of Kenya" by the October 1963 agreement.

No, just the 10-Mile Strip AFAIK. That is, the Republic of Kenya existed BEFORE the Republic of Kenya existed! Those letters should be archived in Kenay, Zanzibar, as well as the British National Archives (BNA).

[BP2]

IT IS UNIQUE. This would explain how the "Republic of Kenya" might have existed before Dec 12, 1964, as just the 10-Mile Strip as a "sovereign state" -- they did not want to be annexed (back) by Zanzibar if they changed their mind after the Brits loosened their grip.

Zanzibar gained its independence from the British on Dec. 10, 1963, TWO days before Kenya did on Dec. 12, 1963.

This is why the 10-mile (6 KM) Strip declared a "sovereign state", informally the "republic of Kenya" otherwise it might be annexed BACK by Zanzibar.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

“McCain, born in Panama in 1936, was born not on American territory, but on land that was leased by the US until surrendered in 1999.”

Wong!!!!

We tax payers paid for every inch of the Canal Zone. Where has your brain been? In the freezer?

I am sensitive to this since I was born in the Canal Zone, grew up here, and am now living in Panama City. I truly dislike ignorance about the Canal Zone from folks who don’t’ know beans about it but like to invent anyway.

The Canal Zone was never “leased.” The Canal Zone was never “surrendered.” Jimmy Carter gave part of our country away.

Don’t ever talk about crap of which you know nothing.

Further, since you have missed 5 million memos on the subject, McCain was born in the Republic of Panama, and not in the Canal Zone. But then, you are not capable of understanding this. So why am I wasting my time I ask myself?

It’s my anger towards uninformed fools like you.

[BP2]

I think this affects McCain due to when he was born in 1936.

Chin makes compelling and well-researched points in Why Senator John Mccain Cannot Be President -- Eleven Months and a Hundred Yards Short of Citizenship -- by Gabriel J. Chin (FINAL):

Because the Canal Zone was a “no man’s land,” (14) in 1937 Congress passed a statute granting citizenship to “any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904” who had at least one U.S. citizen parent. (15) This Act made Senator McCain a United States citizen before his first birthday. But again, to be a natural born citizen, one must be a citizen at birth. Since Senator McCain became a citizen in his eleventh month of life, he does not satisfy this criterion, is not a natural born citizen, and thus is not “eligible to the Office of President.”

(14) 81 CONG. REC. 7769 (1937) (Remarks of Rep. Sparkman).

(15) Act of Aug. 4, 1937, § 1, 50 Stat. 558, ch. 563, codified at 8 U.S.C. § 1403(a).

[LucyT]

Thanks, BP2 and David.

Zanzibar?

Check out # 8,484, then see David's comment at # 8,490, - then read to end of page.

[BP2]

b.t.w. I've no doubt that the framers were specifically referring to Vattel, as he's the only one who defined the term that appears in our Constitution.

CORRECTOMUNDO!

See More Here:
"The Law of Nations" and the Declaration of Independence AND
The Law of Nations and The Constitution AND
Alexander Hamilton's Approach to Natural Law

[afraidfortherepublic]

Hey! You are addressing (rudely) the wrong person. I never posted ANYTHING about John McCain, or where he was born.

[hoosiermama]

Din’t know if you are on Lucy’s ping list but don’t want you to miss BP and David’s posts. Follow instructions at 8496.

[MHGinTN]

AND there is very good reason to believe that this man is also still an Indonesian citizen!

Lolo Soetoro adopted little barry in Hawaii when Lolo married Stanley Ann. Living in Indonesia, Barry Soetoro attended school as an Indonesian citizen. Then, when he was ten and still the adopted son of Lolo, Stanley Ann shipped him back to Hawaii to live with Toots and Stanley senior. He likely traveled on an Indonesian passport at age ten.

Barry graduated from High School in late Spring of 1979. He entered Occidental College in Californai in August or September of 1979, likely under the name Barry Soetoro since he was still the legally adopted son of Lolo Soetoro, according to Stanley Ann's pleading the next year in her divorce suit.

In 1980, Stanley Ann sued for divorce from Lolo Soetoro, in Hawaii, though she was still a resident of Indonesia ... she was married to Lolo in Hawaii before moving to Indonesia, and the adoption took place in Hawaii. In Stanley Ann's pleading to the court, she cited TWO children Lolo was legally responsible for supporting, one over eighteen who needed educational assistance. That means that Barry Soetoro was still legally known as an Indonesian citizen in 1980.

So far, not one scrap of paper has been found showing that Barry Soetoro ever legally changed his name to Barack Hussein Obama, so at the very worst he is still Barry Soetoro and only using Barack Obama as the name he held prior to legal adoption in Hawaii by Lolo Soetoro.

This makes a good case for even more documentation to be released from Hawaiian Vital Records, because if this lying fraud didn't legally change his name to Barack Hussein Obama at some time after 1980, he has purjered himself to Chief Justice John 'the pirate' Roberts when sworn in one of those two events! And if he was sworn in as Barack Obama and again as Barry Soetoro, by all that's holy I want to know the truth about this lying affirmative action criminal!

BP2, hoosiermama, Satin Doll, perhaps you would care to weigh in on the legal aspects of Barry Soetoro and Barack Obama names and presentments as Indonesain citizen and American citizen?