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To: Jeff Head

I looked at that section pp 426-433 and did not see anything saying voluntary or anything saying must attend

What is the basis for saying mandatory

What did I miss


19 posted on 08/04/2009 6:10:45 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: uncbob

I was also looking for the “mandatory” part, but did not find it. Perhaps it’s indicated earlier in the document.

What disturbs me the most about this kind of counseling - even if it’s not mandatory, but, say, provided for “free” on an opt-in basis, is the actual content of said counseling. i.e., will these counselors be pushing people over 65 to consider “costs” of various treatments? e.g., will they be hard-selling grandma on the exorbitant cost of getting cancer treatment as a senior citizen and recommending she choose to reject such treatments? If the Peter Singer QALY index becomes a guidepost for such counselors, will our senior citizens become collectively (if even gently) pushed towards allowing their own lives to expire out of economic consideration to younger, “more deserving” and “more economically productive” generations?

With the current administration record against the sanctity of life, I find such gov’t sponsored counseling - mandatory or not - to be rife with insidious, potentially nefarious possibilities.


47 posted on 08/04/2009 8:20:05 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever (Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia, et ubi ecclesia vita eterna!)
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To: uncbob
P. 425: ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:

P. 428: ‘‘(3)(A) An initial preventive physical examination under subsection (WW), including any related discussion during such examination, shall not be considered an advance care planning consultation for purposes of applying the 5-year limitation under paragraph (1).

P. 429: ‘‘(B) An advance care planning consultation with respect to an individual may be conducted more frequently than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual, including diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or a hospice program.

‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may include the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining treatment or a similar order.

‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to the treatment of that individual.

50 posted on 08/04/2009 9:25:59 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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