Posted on 08/12/2009 12:19:46 PM PDT by spacejunkie2001
WDBO Local News
Congressman Mica: death counselors are real By Bob Hazen @ August 12, 2009 7:26 AM Permalink | Comments (1) President Obama is fighting what he calls "wild misrepresentations" being made about what is in the health care overhaul plan being debated in Congress. But a Central Florida congressman says one of those "misrepresentations" is actually true.
Congressman John Mica says the idea of "death counselors" are real.
"They create a whole new category," Mica, a Winter Park Republican, said on WDBO. "There are death counselors. There is authorization for reimbursement for those counselors for Medicare. You have a whole new cottage industry.
The "death panel" idea comes from a 10-page section for "advanced care planning consultations" of the health care overhaul bill. Those consultations would reimburse doctors for talking with patients every 5 years about what kind of care they want at the end of their lives.
Opponents have said the provision amounts to doctors telling you how you should die, and could possibly be a first step towards advocating euthanasia for the ill and the elderly.
Supporters say it only aims to motivate doctors to let patients know their options.
The seniors that are on medicare of the most part are not on it by choice. It is the government that forced seniors to get onto medicare by making impossible for them to have any other insurance.
I won't argue that point because I know it is true.
If you can't read the house bill for yourself and see that this end of life counseling is nothing more than a lead into government mandated suicide there is something wrong with you. Death panels they are and they will be used that way.
If you want government run health care then please move to Cuba or some other country that supplies it. We don't want it here.
There are two different Issues you are conflating.
1. End of life Counseling.
They claim it is not Mandatory,
But they will Pay the Doctor to do it.
This means in a time when the Doctor is told
what he can charge for everything, in order to
recoup some of his losses This will definitely
become Mandatory from the Doctors point of view.
2. So Called “Death Panels”
These are the Boards that will meet and decide
the Value of your continued existence or whether
to contain costs by withholding treatment.
You need to educate yourself.
Try reading Dr. Ezekial Emanuel’s Treatise on the “Whole Lives System.”
Dr. Emanuel is Obama’s Chief adviser on Healthcare.
Another thing to look up is “QALY Score.”
There are several other Issues that are Relevant.
When you add 50 Million more People to the System But
Zero New Doctors How will that effect Care?
In fact many Doctors will leave the System and either
go underground to Mexico or Retire.
There is No Plan to Train the Masses of New Doctors
that will be needed.
The only way for the Plan to work is Rationing or
Killing off the Elderly.
After all most Elderly Vote Conservative So this might be a way to Skew the Electorate and Guarantee Democrat Wins.
I see what you’re saying, ksen. But then if it is already part of what is happening, why mandate it? I think it is legit to look at this as a foot in the door for gov’t to “suggest” your alternatives...required by law....
I know you see it differently.
Seriously? Explain how to verify that said goverment-paid doctors are only discussing living wills. Nuance is a powerful weapon. One could easily discuss "living wills" in the context of "how much of a financial burden do you want to become to your loved ones?"
Once that door opens, it doesn't close. Once it becomes acceptable for the government to advise "what" happens, it becomes impossible to stop them from advising "when" it should happen. The gov't can barely monitor itself - they certainly won't be bothered with enforcing its own chalk-thin guidelines.
Ezekiel Emanuel has written and said things that show he is right with this document. As you can see--babies and oldies hardest hit.
I am even angrier about the babies--imagine denying a precious baby the chance to survive in order to give the time and money to a teen or twenty-something just because time and money has ALREADY been invested in the teens that would be lost. This mindset is what we get for allowing millions of abortions every year.
Many people are just so loathe to believe this Admin would take such Draconian measures and want to believe all the denials of Obama and his crew. Let me just point out that the death trains in Germany during WWII were called relocation trains.They were filled with women and children as well as men--mostly Jews, but also enemies of the state.
I do not suggest this Admin plans camps and relocations--I just say do not swallow all the vague promises and denials, when what is actually IN the present bills could/would lead to the govt. having unfettered power over our lives.
vaudine
vaudine
“A lot of hospitals already give this kind of counseling whenever someone is admitted.”
Yep. It is. So why does it need to be addressed in HR3200? Some are saying so the dr. can be paid for this. But, again, these counseling sessions are already happening. Docs must currently be writing off the costs.
Meetings where doctor, patient and family discuss this are done all the time. That’s all well and good. But I don’t want to be in a meeting about this with any one other than my doctor and my family. I especially don’t want some government bean-counter heavily invested in “outcome based measures” in the room, either literally or figuratively.
This part of the bill itself, eh, sure maybe not the boogeyman. But taken in conjunction with statements made by the President and his advisors should warrant concern. The President has stated it’s time for people to think about forgoing surgery for pain meds. and given other examples where the push will be on for cost effectiveness and avoidance of “inefficiencies.”
His advisors on health hold positions in accordance with eugenics and have made statements that indicate more vulnerable members of society should not expect— perhaps _not deserve_ medical treatment. For example:
Dr. E. Emanuel says medical care should be reserved for the non-disabled, not given to those “who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens . . . An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.”
Then, taken in conjunction with those in Canada and in the UK who don’t get to have certain healthcare options after a certain age, or those in the state of Oregon, who were offered assisted suicide as the only covered option because their medical treatment was just too expensive, well, this is not a stretch.
And then, realize, this section of the bill is part of the whole package. The whole package which also involves establishing a group of bureaucrats to study and decide what methods of treatment or non-treatment will be covered, based on statistics and outcome based measures. Sometimes a group like that is referred to a a board, a committee, even a panel.
Here’s another quote dating back to April, but just heard it mentioned on Fox and looked it up:
“That’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues,” he said in the April 14 interview. “The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health- care bill out here.”
P.S. The April quote was by Obama.
I am guessing you are not a Senior Citizen?
D@mn shame civilization came along.
Because they are not bad arguments. The cheapest helth care is none. The easiest way to give none without feeling guily while you watch someone die in pain, is to simply put them down. If you don't think that is on the agenda then you simply don't understand the issue.
We should call them "death squads".
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