So much for packing a, um, rod

New York Post ^ | September 8, 2009 | JAMIE SCHRAM

[wastedyears]

He shot his piece with a piece.

[Shooter 2.5]

You are mistaking opinion for fact.

It seems you missed the September issue of the American Rifleman. The NRA organized a panel of experts to review history’s handguns. After much debate, the panel was able to report on their choice of the top ten handguns ever invented.

Here’s the list of the greatest handguns in the world based on their opinion:

1. 1911
2. Smith and Wesson Hand Ejector Revolvers
3. Glock 17
4. Smith and Wesson Model One
5. Volcanic Volitional Repeater
6. Colt’s Model P Single Action
7. Walther PP, PPK, PPK/S
8. C96 Mauser Broomhandle
9. Browning Hi Power
10. Smith and Wesson Registered Magnum

[Shooter 2.5]

Good post and accurate.

I was taught by Jeff Cooper and you simply didn’t mention Glocks during the instruction. That was a serious breach of etiquette.

On the other hand, the FrontSight school issued Glock 17’s as part of their instruction and I had no problem adjusting.

I don’t care for Glocks. I like a little more personality with my guns. One gun that is a favorite and very much liked is horribly ugly but for some reason, it has a beautiful quality that must have cost more than the original price.

The use of plastic is regrettable. I don’t care for it and it’s sad to see instead of honest steel.

Glocks can be dangerous in the hands of a beginner, especially if they are too lazy to buy a holster. Beginners have to learn to keep their fingers off the trigger.

In order for something to be labeled junk, IN MY OPINION, the object doesn’t work, it wasn’t designed to work and no amount of safety can keep the operator from harm. Glocks don’t fit that description by any stretch of the imagination.

[Uri’el-2012]

M1911a1 colt. Its proven. You can dunk it in a mud puddle and it still shoots. Its the AK47 of handguns. Glocks just suck, plain and simple, and people who dont accept that fact are idiots, or no nothing about firearms.

Just what are your credentials concerning firearms ?

[real saxophonist]

Take this class. With your 1911. You will buy a Glock afterward. Two people in my class did.

[Shooter 2.5]

Sorry, but you are definitely missing the point. It really isn’t the pistol. It’s the person behind it.

[real saxophonist]

How am I missing the point? I am addressing the person behind the pistol.

[Shooter 2.5]

You’re implying it’s better to use a Glock than a 1911 for that course. It’s not whether a person uses a Glock or 1911. It’s the person behind the pistol that makes the difference.

[Raven6]

"That was a serious breach of etiquette."

Absolutely! The Colonel didn't much care for those "crunchintickers" did he? And I remember him describing the perfect trigger pull (on a 1911, of course) as being "like a glass rod breaking."

The 1911 was my first love in the world of handguns... It was the one I had wanted from the time I was able to actually pick one up and fire it. In fact, when I made my first purchase of a 1911, I got a call two days later from the gunshop requesting that I bring my father to the gunshop so that they could put it in his name - I have always looked older than my years, and they thought I was 21 when I was actually 18! My Gunsight time was back in the Louis Awerbuck days of Gunsight. Since he left there (I and have no greivance with the current Gunsight at all) I have mainly stayed with him (Yavapai Firearms Academy) for my instruction. But my last class with Louis was in 1996... My own company now takes so much of my time that I rarely get to be the student anymore. The up side is that I get with other instructors and we share ideas.

Times do change though... Glocks are found at Gunsight... I now have Galco gunleather for my Glocks that have the Gunsight "Raven" logo imprinted on them! The Colonel may be spinning in his grave at that...

I agree that Glocks are not pretty... The first time I looked down the sights of my Glock 21 and then slightly lowered the pistol (just to look at it) I felt like I was looking across the deck of an aircraft carrier. That is one big flat slab of steel when you look at the top of the slide. But I got used to it. The biggest difference outside of the operating system, was (to me) the way that the web of the hand was moved much higher to the centerline of the barrel. This caused the recoil recovery time (again, for me) to at least seem much shorter. Not quite as much muzzle flip as found shooting the same load in my Glock as in my 1911. Muzzle flip and recoil is not a big issue to me anyway, as I wear XXL gloves and a size 13 ring. But I could tell a difference. My Glock 21 fits my hand like a Glock 17/22/31 fits most average hands. My sole reason for purchasing that Glock 21 was that I wanted a hi-cap .45 ACP pistol. At the time, we didn't have the Para-Ordinance and other "wide bodied" 1911 framed pistols to choose from. Over time, I got used to operating the Glock system and it became my everyday carry pistol.

I still carry my first 1911 on occasion... It is vastly different now than it was when I bought it for $385 (brand new.) I do my own pistolsmithing work. Lowering and flaring ejection ports, tightening slides to frames, installing sights, etc. By building my own, I can choose the parts I like from the different companies. I like Bar-Sto barrels, Wilson mags, Ed Brown bushings, and Wilson guide rods. Wilson's "bulletproof" extractors are, in my opinion, the best out there. I especially like the King's Gun Works ambidextreous extended safety, because it does not use the right grip panel to hold the right side safety in place. It uses a replacement grip safety pin that, instead of fitting flush with the frame, has a "dove-tail" head on it that in turn rides in a "dove-tailed" slot of the right side safety. You install the grip safety pin left-to-right, and then install the left side safety simultaneously with the right side safety. If something bad happened and you lost or cracked the right grip panel, you do not lose your ambidextreous safety. I've just never been a fan of using a grip panel to hold parts onto a pistol...

I too love the beautiful steel that was once found in the old classics. It seems no one wants to take the time to put a mirror finish on a piece of steel anymore before they blue it. Seems like everything is "matte" or "bead blast" blue. You have to get into the more expensive pistols before you can get that "old time" finish.

Glocks can indeed be dangerous in the hands of a beginner... Mainly because they can't keep their d@Mn finger off of the trigger until they are own target. On my range, that is a "removable" offense - in other words, they are pulled off the line for the day. No refunds... No excuses... And if we are working with a department (keeping in mind that we would be dealing with recruits at this point usually) I do my best to see that the offender gets to do a bunch of diamond push-ups before they are released at the end of the day.

For me, the Glocks are kind of like a "work truck." They are a tool that serves a purpose... Not pretty, but they work. When it is time for me to leave the "work trucks" at home, I carry one of my 1911s, a S&W 645, or my 4" S&W 629-5. (I can't help it, I get a little nostalgic every so often and have to carry a revolver.)

Regards,
Raven6

BTW... I only copied you on that post as I had requested you let me know when someone replied with what they carried. They had replied to me instead... Don't want you to think I was directing anything at you.

[real saxophonist]

I'm not implying anything. The guy with the Kimber had to borrow some gloves after 100 rounds. First thing he did after the class was buy a Glock.

I agree it's the person behind the pistol that makes the difference.

[Rannug]

Darn you. My monitor and keyboard WERE clean. :-)

[Shooter 2.5]

Good post. Cooper was asked what was needed in a combat pistol and he said a good trigger, sights and the controls where you need them. After I put a set of Novaks on my 1911’s, I just love them.

I haven’t found anyone who had fallen in love with their Glocks. That seems to make as much sense as loving your fire extinguisher. You may be overjoyed you have one at the time but I just can’t get that attached to one. Every single 1911 I have is unique and I like it that way.

But anyone even thinking Glocks are junk just doesn’t know anything about firearms.

[Shooter 2.5]

That’s a finishing problem. It has nothing to do with the design. I bought a Springfield Armory and every single cut they made in the metal produced a right angle cutting surface. I had an old Remington Rand that had no sharp edges to it at all. I could fire thousands of rounds through it.
Unfortunately, that’s why Kimber produced a “Melted” look to their guns. I’m still convinced the look was caused by poor manufacturing so they simply adapted a new “look”. It’s not necessary to round off every surface. It’s only important the controls have no burrs or sharp edges like the safeties, the slide grooves and the edges around the mag well.

Take a look at my Springfield on my profile page. It took two hours while watching a movie to remove all the trouble spots. The Taurus had a trouble spot near the grip safety. That’s gone now.

I was thinking of buying a couple of Glocks just to keep under the seat of the cars. I would’t worry if they were scratched up or abused.

[real saxophonist]

That Springfield’s very nice. I carried a nickel Combat Commander for a long time. I now have four Glocks. 8~)