Posted on 09/20/2009 7:30:59 AM PDT by SJackson
If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
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“miseducation”???
How about blatant INDOCTRINATION to hate anyone but muslims?
The Catholic Church has failed miserably in its teachings about Jesus. The proof is in the fruit from the tree (as the Bible teaches). A vast majority of them vote Democrat and consider themselves Catholics in name only (Pelosi and Kennedy are not an aberration, they are the rule). Whenever I hear of a Muslim convert, more times than not I find out that the person used to be a Catholic. There needs to be a fundamental change in Catholic education.
But his ilk are rare. The exception proves the rule. Also, he's not an Arab.
I’am so sick of the Catholic bashing. I begrudge no man his faith. Yet mine is constantly denegrated. My church taught me that the Jews are Gods chosen people. Unlike American Jews, I as a Catholic would die in the defense of Israel. Is their bad clergy? Yes. Is there bad Rabbis? Yes. Are their bad Imams? Most certainly. The saddest thing this article represents, is the authors selective ignorance with regard to his chosen faith.
Bump.
I have a copy too. Though that doesn't mean I'm weak-willed enough to become a muslim.
The quran has so many "qualifiers" in it that it effectively cancels itself out of so-called "revelation" rendering it a hodge-podge.
Here the adage applies: If you want to be a muslim to serve God don't be a muslim.
Amen. I failed to mention in my post, that I do begrudge the Muslims faith (Islam). A faith based solely on intolerance. It is a fact that, where nations have a majority Muslim population, their is conflict on the borders. No exception. The Muslims in Turkey are marking Christian residences with symbols, targeting them for persecution. I say no Mosques in America, until we are allowed churches in Saudi Arabia. Or better yet, no Mosques period.
The Quran says, “Suicide is usurping the will of Allah. One should die the death Allah has willed and not take one’s own life. To commit suicide is damnation in hell for eternity….In war you do not harm women, children, the old or any non-combatant; you do not destroy churches, mosques, synagogues or any house of God; you do not destroy crops, cattle or tear the earth asunder.” - Hill
I want to think Hill is correct but 10’s or 100’s of millions of Muslims say he’s wrong.
I find this practice absolutely foolish. Any one who follows any "Church" doctrine without question , and forgoes studying the scriptures for themselves, can easily find themselves being led by men and not of GOD.
Such was the case with Jim Jones, or the Branch Dividians, and we remember how those turned out!
Oh, the stories I could tell.
But it's not true that "a vast majority" votes Democrat. In fact, the same percentage of self-identified Catholics voted for Obama, as the overall electorate in 2008 (53%). Way, way too many, but still not "a vast majority."
Like a huge ocean liner in mid-Atlantic, the Catholic Church in America turns slowly. It has been turning noticeably back toward its own traditions for a decade. The old Jean Jadot/Pio Laghi bishops are retiring and dying; the new bishops are, in the main orthodox and good teachers.
Dig in your heels. If you're an informed Catholic, offer to teach in your parish. Pray to love. Pray and fight. Pray.
Certain people have an agenda denying that such Muslims exist at all. It is easier to have a simplicistic black&white picture.
Regardless of islam itself (which I am not defending as the "ROP"), there are many Muslims, by accident or by choice, pious or secular, who are wonderful persons.
Churchill had it right when he said to the effect that islam is a most retrogard force, which nontheless doesn't stop individual Muslims (and there are numerous) from having splendid qualities.
In the American context, any self-described Muslim who adheres to the Constitution, American values and is even willing to serve Old Glory in the frontline against the islamist terrorists is good in my book.
To the extent that Catholics have any exposure to their Faith at all -- which usually means, to the extent that they go to Sunday Mass --- they are invariably directed toward Scripture. EVERY Sunday Mass has 4 major readings (the Old Testament lesson, the Psalm, the Epistle, and the Gospel) and at EVERY Mass we pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding.
You can get a Catholic Bible at Amazon.com for one cent (plus postrage!) and no Catholic has any excuse not to have it, read it, or revere it.
Conceding --- with sorrow --- that the sermons are often pathetic, and the religious teaching in Catholic schools often shockingly deficient, still I must say that Catholics who are religiously ignorant ar so for the same reasons that Protestants, Jews, or anybody else is religiously ignorant: distraction, social conformity, and sloth.
I want to think Hill is correct but 10’s or 100’s of millions of Muslims say he’s wrong.
And that's the enemy! For the record it's around 10-15%. Now 10-15% of 1.5 billion is a pretty big number...but 85-90%......? Know what I mean.
Sorry for forgetting to ping you on the Vietnam Christian thread. This might be of some interest, a close friend of Rick Rescorla
I could call so much BS on this guy. I wonder if he even read the koran and Bible.
What is Islam based on?
Mohammed went into “trances” and fits (like epileptic fits) when he was given the “word of God” and would shout out what he was told. These would be written down by his followers. This is the makeup of the Koran.
When Mohammed was just walking and talking and acting like “normal”, his words and deeds were written down by his followers and this went into the Hadith. Now, acting “normal” for Mohammed was taking 12+ wives (including a 6 year old when he was 51), taking slaves (including sex slaves), executing infidels, conducting raids for treasure, etc.
Now, this is where it gets complicated.
A large part of the words he spoke in trances were “taken back” by Mohammed. He determined them to be the work of the devil (thus they are called the “Satanic Verses” and these are the same verses that Mr. Salman Rushdie got in trouble for writing about).
Now, how Mohammed determined which verses were from God and which were from Satan I do not know.
Also, there were literally dozens of widely different versions of the Hadith floating around right after Mohammends death and there are large amounts of Hadith that are disputed. Now, even Mohammed could not remember what he was told by God and forgot it (those are his words as written in the Hadith) so I do not know how the powers in charge decided which was the correct version.
Also according to the Hadith, Mohammed turned people into monkeys, you can determine a child’s sex depending on whether the male or female has an orgasm first (that advice came directly from the Angel Gabriel), dogs are evil and should be killed, that the devil lives in your nose at night (and how to get rid of him in the morning), chess is forbidden, muslims have one intestine while infidels have seven, don’t pray looking up or your eyes will be snatched away, that one wing of a fly is poison but the other is the cure, that drinking camel urine is good for you and I could go on.
And that Mohammed himself didn’t even know if he was going to heaven. If even Mohammed doesn’t know, what chance does the average muslim have?
And for some non-PC info, Mohammed was described as a white man.
Now, if you can bear it, to compare to the Gospels of New Testament.
Jesus was born into a poor Jewish family in an area of the world under the occupation of the Roman Empire. He would grow up to be a carpenter for the majority of his life, living quietly and humbly in Nazareth. However, for the last three years of his life he would travel throughout Palestine teaching, healing, and challenging the conventional Jewish order. Jesus was killed for basically saying he was a King and Son of God (blasphemy) by the powers in charge (Roman and Jewish). The government wanted Jesus destroyed and wanted his growing movement destroyed (as it threatened their power). If, after 3 days, the followers of Jesus proclaimed he has risen from the dead, (just as he predicted), and is truly our Savior, the High Officials would have wanted to destroy such a “myth.” They could have easily done this by producing the dead body of Jesus and saying “Your Messiah is still dead and so is your movement” or producing many eye witnesses of the dead Jesus. But they couldn’t.
So fundamentally, without education, without an army, and without money, this Jesus of Nazareth would forever change the course of human history.
The letters that make up the core of the New Testament were written by the eye witnesses of the events of Jesus or by their associates. They were written in just one generation when many other eye witnesses were still alive. They were written without collusion from other Apostles. Even if any of the Apostles wanted to “add” to the “myth” of Jesus, they would have done so in a very disjointed and easily detectable fashion. Yet, the main Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) that describe the life of Jesus are amazingly in harmony with one another and the small differences are consistent with what we would see today if four people witnessed a major event and wrote about the event apart from each other. The Gospels can be traced back to their sources and are basically unchanged from their originals.
The Bible (especially the New Testament) is the most investigated historical document in the history of the world. It has been investigated by scientists, philosophers and archeologists using technology undreamed of when the Bible was written. It is been desperately tried to be “disproved” for over 2000 years, yet, the Bible still stands as the truth.
The stories of Jesus still make sense to us today. It may be because they are true, it may be because they are based in love or it may be because they were written to tell the people of the Word of God.
Regards,
2banana
PS - There are many topics that could be compared - The stories of a adulterous woman is found in both the Bible and Koran. They seem to sum up each religion.
Christianity
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
“No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.” (John 8:1-11)
Islam
There came to him (the Holy Prophet) a woman from Gamid and said: ‘Allah’s Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me.’ He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: ‘Allah’s messenger, why do you turn me away? ... By Allah I have become pregnant.’ He said ‘Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth.’ When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag, and said ‘Here is the child whom I have given birth to.’ He said ‘Go away and suckle him until you wean him.’ When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said ‘Allah’s Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food.’ He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. (Sahih Muslim 4206)
Jesus
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions. (Mark 12:28-34)
Mohammed
Allah’s Apostle was asked, “What is the best deed?” He replied, “To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, “What is the next in goodness? He replied, “To participate in Jihad in Allah’s Cause.” The questioner again asked, “What is the next (in goodness)?” He replied, “To perform Hajj Mubrur.”
“Believers! - wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbors, and let them find you rigorous; and know that God is with those who fear him.” (Koran 9:124)
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