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Jonathan Wells Hits an Evolutionary Nerve (over origin of functional genetic information)
Discovery Institute ^ | October 14, 2009 | Casey Luskin

Posted on 10/15/2009 8:15:58 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

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To: Alamo-Girl; tacticalogic
The extension of pi may appear random but it is not. It is only pseudo-random. The digit in any position of the extension of pi is caused by the calculation of a particular circle's circumference divided by its diameter. It will be the same digit in the same position no matter how many times it is calculated or on what circles.

What a splendid essay/post, dearest sister in Christ! Thank you oh so very much for writing it, and posting it here!

I find the irrational/transcendental numbers (such as pi) utterly fascinating. They seem not only not to be "random"; rather they seem to suggest to my mind the existence of deep structure underlaying the Universe.

Number theory is an "education," all by itself. Thanks to "the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics." Or so it seems to me, FWIW.

161 posted on 11/01/2009 5:56:56 PM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: tacticalogic
Please accept my apology, I meant no offense. The thought of a two dice scenario did not occur to me at all.

We play Yahtzee a lot - it's a favorite of the elderly cousins - and so I'm used to thinking in terms of either five dice or 1 die.

But of course in throwing two dice, the sum of the two would more likely be 7 than 2 and 1 is impossible.

Nevertheless, whether 1 die, 2 dice, 5 dice or whatever. The likelihood of a particular number on a particular die is equally probable. Combinations or sums stem from that baseline. That's combinatorix.

162 posted on 11/01/2009 10:03:28 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: tacticalogic
me: However, in abiogenesis (life from non-life) combinatorix ("randomness") is always at issue.

you: Only if you want it to be.

I don't make that argument for either the origin of life or the universe(s.)

I aver that order cannot rise from chaos in an unguided physical system. Period. There are always guides to the system.

Whether self-organizing complexity, cellular automata or chaos theory - there are always rules or initial conditions.

163 posted on 11/01/2009 10:10:26 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop
I find the irrational/transcendental numbers (such as pi) utterly fascinating. They seem not only not to be "random"; rather they seem to suggest to my mind the existence of deep structure underlaying the Universe.

Number theory is an "education," all by itself. Thanks to "the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics." Or so it seems to me, FWIW.

And to me, too!

Thank you so very much for your insights, dearest sister in Christ, and for your encouragements!

164 posted on 11/01/2009 10:13:50 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Okay. I was tired when I wrote that. We'eve had a corrupted database issue at work that's been making me put in some long hours at work this week.

Nevertheless, whether 1 die, 2 dice, 5 dice or whatever. The likelihood of a particular number on a particular die is equally probable. Combinations or sums stem from that baseline. That's combinatorix.

That's true. But that's also an exercise in mathematics. We're at a point where we seem to understand that too often the word "random" is used in situations where things aren't truly "random" in the mathematical sense, and that genetics and genetic changes that drive evolution is one of them. We also understand that evolution and abiogenesis are two different issues - there is nothing in ToE that addresses abiogenesis or disallows the divine creation of life. It only theorizes that it has the ability to evolve, and that it has happened over a long period of time.

Yet we keep going back to addressing it as if it explicitly requires a premise of spontaneous abiogenesis, and attempting to evaluate it using "radndom" in the absolute terms of mathematics.

165 posted on 11/02/2009 3:36:12 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic; betty boop
I raise the concepts of randomness and abiogenesis because they cause a great deal of hostility in the crevo wars. And they shouldn't. On the one hand is a misappropriation of a math term and on the other, a "filling in of the blanks."

We can plead for understanding between the sides on just such issues. And truly that is where this type of discussion belongs, not between us because we are evidently in agreement.

166 posted on 11/02/2009 9:09:43 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Agreed.


167 posted on 11/02/2009 9:43:05 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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