Posted on 10/16/2009 5:59:24 PM PDT by RobinMasters
A congressional committee deliberated only five years ago a plan that would have opened the door to allowing immigrants and others who do not qualify as "natural born" citizens in the United States entry into the Oval office – but ended up killing the plan.
One of the advocates for the plan was Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., whose comments still are available in an audio file posted at Talk Radio News.
"I believe in the right of the people to choose as they wish. People say, 'Well you're amending the Constitution.' The fact is in 1789 the notion of direct democracy was not the one that governed," the congressman said.
"Clearly in terms of world history the people who came to the American continent… They went for the first time to self governance, but they didn't go all the way. We have evolved substantially since that time, I think in a good direction," he said.
"We do have now this major obstacle in the way of the voters, and we say to them, 'We don't trust you, you could get fooled, I mean, they might, some foreign country might sucker you by getting some slick person and mole him into the United States or her and get that person citizenship and then years later have that person get elected president and you'll be too dumb to notice.'
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
Hard to believe that the anointers would be thinking of running Obama (who was still in the IL state Senate in '04) in 2008, at a time in 2004 when Kerry was probably considered likely to beat Bush. Do you really think that they would plot against a future Kerry re-election bid back then? Would the Kerry people have let O give a prime time speech at the 2004 Dem convention if they thought that O had such ideas for '08?
No, the PUMAs don't make sense with this theory. They were too upset at being beaten by dirty tactics within their own party to think logically.
The very earliest the Obamatons could have started their planning for his anointment would be the day after the election in '04, and Frank made his remarks before then.
BTW, can anyone state with certainty when Frank formally endorsed O against HRC for the Dem nomination? How early was it?
Frank never impressed me as being particular bright, even in his promotion of his his own sinister causes. His speech is often garbled and illogical. If he were so sharp, he'd never have been exposed with the gay escort service running out of his Washington apartment.
As of Jan 10, 2008, “Hillary Clinton, Obama’s main rival for the Democratic nomination, has Representatives Barney Frank”
John Kerry To Endorse Obama For President
From Boston Globe:
Kerry to endorse Obama January 10, 2008
By Susan Milligan, Globe Staff
John F. Kerry, the Democratic presidential nominee in 2004, will endorse Barack Obama in this year’s race, a source close to the Massachusetts senator said.
Kerry, who announced last year he would not again seek his party’s nomination for president, believes his Illinois colleague “has the best potential to bring about transformational change,” said the official, who asked not to be named because he was not authorized to speak about the endorsement before Kerry makes it official in Charleston today.
Kerry is the latest prominent Massachusetts Democrat to join Obama’s team, following Governor Deval Patrick and Representative William Delahunt, among others.
Hillary Clinton, Obama’s main rival for the Democratic nomination, has Representatives Barney Frank, Stephen Lynch, James McGovern, and Richard Neal in her corner.
Senator Edward M. Kennedy has not yet made his pick…
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/john-kerry-to-endorse-obama-for-president
McCain was not born in Panama. He was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which was US territory.
I believe it was Jimmah Cahtah that gave away the Canal Zone and that was long after McCain’s birth there.
What does it matter anyway? The wimpy RINO McCain will never be Prez.
Thanks for your reply, JS93!
I’ve had to argue with a handful of folks who just refuse to believe that McCain was born on US territory. Frustrating.
“it has been theorized that the decision to ‘anoint’ BHO WAS made back in 2004.”
Actually, this is plausable. Look at the circumstances of his election to the U.S. Senate. The Chicago Tribune actually filed suit to get the Republican nominee’s divorce records unsealed for the purpose of damaging his candidacy. This is unprecedented, as far as I can tell. The result was not only did the nominee (Jack Ryan) withdraw, but Republicans were unable to find a feasible candidate. Clearly, something unusual was going on for Obama’s sake. He got adoring media attention even though he accomplished little as a state legislator. Then, he was elected President even though he was a first-term Senator with no major legislation under his belt. I don’t know of this ever happening in American history.
The plot, IMO, goes back way further than 2004. Yes, plot as in sinister and suspect.
It matters because it's relevant to the issue at hand, because McCain also has doubts as to his eligibility to the office of President under Constitutional original intent. Otherwise, there would not have been that wildly unconstitutional Senate Resolution 511, and there would not have been multiple bills proposed, at least five since 2000, with the purpose of Constitutional amendment to make children born abroad of military parents natural-born citizens.
As far as simply "giving away" the Zone, please consider how that might be possible for sovereign territory. It's not. Administrative control of the Zone was gradually returned to Panama, beginning in 1979 and completely ceded in 1999. Under the constitution of Panama, the Zone always was Panamanian territory. They granted the United States authority to act "as if" it were U.S. territory. "As if" precludes actual, full territorial control. Our own State Department recognized this.
Regarding John McCain's specific predicament, I'll refer you to the very thorough analysis of the matter by Gabriel J. Chin (University of Arizona James E. Rogers College of Law). The following is an abstract of that analysis:
Senator McCain was born in 1936 in the Canal Zone to U.S. citizen parents. The Canal Zone was territory controlled by the United States, but it was not incorporated into the Union. As requested by Senator McCain's campaign, distinguished constitutional lawyers Laurence Tribe and Theodore Olson examined the law and issued a detailed opinion offering two reasons that Senator McCain was a natural born citizen. Neither is sound under current law. The Tribe-Olson Opinion suggests that the Canal Zone, then under exclusive U.S. jurisdiction, may have been covered by the Fourteenth Amendment's grant of citizenship to "all persons born . . . in the United States." However, in the Insular Cases, the Supreme Court held that "unincorporated territories" were not part of the United States for constitutional purposes. Accordingly, many decisions hold that persons born in unincorporated territories are not Fourteenth Amendment citizens. The Tribe-Olson Opinion also suggests that Senator McCain obtained citizenship by statute. However, the only statute in effect in 1936 did not cover the Canal Zone. Recognizing the gap, in 1937, Congress passed a citizenship law applicable only to the Canal Zone, granting Senator McCain citizenship, but eleven months too late for him to be a citizen at birth. Because Senator John McCain was not a citizen at birth, he is not a "natural born Citizen" and thus is not "eligible to the Office of President" under the Constitution.
This essay concludes by exploring how changes in constitutional law implied by the Tribe-Olson Opinion, such as limiting the Insular Cases and expanding judicial review of immigration and nationality laws passed by Congress, could make Senator McCain a citizen at birth and thus a natural born citizen.
A natural-born citizen cannot be "made" after the fact, octex. It is a status that is or is not present at birth. Prof. Chin provides some support, for those who claim that John McCain was not even born a U.S. citizen. I'll refute that very severe claim, by citing U.S. immigration and naturalization statutes going all the way back to 1795. John McCain was born a citizen. Just not a natural-born citizen.
Kerry was never likely to beat Bush. But obviously Obama would not have run if Kerry were elected in 2004, instead he’d have waited till 2012.
The stupid hype over his BS pap rainbow speech in 2004 was proof powerful elements in the rat party were keen on selling Obama for the next opening. They knew of course it would be a battle royale with Shrillery so I’d hardly call it “anointing”.
JFK gave away part of Texas to Mexico--at least some people would see it that way. (An international court had ruled in Mexico's favor--it had to do with a bit of land called El Chamizal in El Paso, where the Rio Grande had shifted its course).
I’ll be pissed off if the day ever comes a democrat wins the EC and loses the popular vote.
2004 ended up a bit closer than I thought it would be. But except I think for a meaningless post convention bump for Kerry it was never worse than a tie.
“JFK gave away part of Texas to Mexico”
Interesting, I never heard of that. JFK was a douche. James Polk would have been disappointed in him. Seems like a meaningless little piece of land but still, it’s the principle of the thing.
I just remember my mother being upset over the transfer of land--but she hadn't voted for Kennedy to begin with.
Thanks for that very informative posting, RC.
That’s the first time I’ve read about the laws prevailing at the time of Mc’s birth in the Canal Zone.
Based on that information neither he nor Obama was eligible to be POTUS according to the Constitution requirement that the person be a Natural born citizen.
I’ve put a fair amount of time into trying to understand the whole thing, and as best I can tell, there was good reason for doubt regarding McCain’s eligibility, and there is even more reason for doubt regarding Obama’s. Strictly speaking, under original intent, it’s clear to me that neither was eligible.
And therein lies the reason, I believe, that McCain never pursued the eligilibity of Barry Oba-Hussein.
I am also of the belief that Senate Resolution 511 was an intentional distraction to the whole issue, that if McCain's eligibility was "certified" by the Senate, they'd keep their hands off of Hussein. Note that both Barry and Hildebeast signed on to this resolution. Also, I'm of the opinion that there was some sort of "deal" made with McCain that he'd stay away from Barry's eligibility or there would be hell to pay with his own questionable NBC status.
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