Atheists in Bubbleland

JewishWorldReview.com ^ | 10/28/2009 | Rabbi Yonason Goldson

[GL of Sector 2814]

I believe I understand what you're saying; it comes down to the definitions of the words that we're using. I think this example will clarify it:

Suppose someone is dreaming, and in the dream a tree falls with a loud crash. Did the dreamer hear a sound?

1) No. The brain of the dreamer had the experience of hearing a sound, but it was generated by the brain itself; there was no actual pressure wave through the medium of the atmosphere, hence no actual sound, just a perceived sound.

2) Yes. A sound is the experience itself, thus an imagined sound is just as "real" as one which is generated by a pressure wave.

As I've been using the word, only definition 1 applies.

[Blind Eye Jones]

“In the same manner, a “true atheist”, while not believing in God, could be interested in others belief in God.”

Yes and no. At least on the surface, he is not interested in their beliefs. He may be interested in countering their beliefs. To be interested in someones beliefs implies more than dispassion; it implies more than just understanding. Interest gives itself over to belief, however subtle. The atheist is fighting himself on some level, wanting some part of him to win out. It is more psychological than logical.

[GL of Sector 2814]

Interest gives itself over to belief, however subtle. The atheist is fighting himself on some level, wanting some part of him to win out.

Hm...

I disagree. Example: there are people have devoted a fair amount of time to debunking astrology. There's no reason to think that their interest in some people's belief in astrology makes them believe in it in the slightest way.

Why should belief in God(s) be any different?

[Blind Eye Jones]

They do believe it (e.g. astrology), or a part of them does. What helps that belief is they know others have believed (it made sense or was experienced by others). Furthermore, because the human mind is finite there can never be the type of certainty that comes from knowing everything there is to know about the universe; so they can never be certain that they have truly debunked astrology. Nothing is that conclusive to the finite mind. So, in effect, they know there is always room for the possibility of astrology. But despite all this, belief is something we give ourselves to, sometimes consciously, sometimes unconsciously. The greater parts of that “giving” operates more in the area of psychology than rational thought. Rational thought come late in the day, sometimes it reinforces belief and sometimes it is at war with it. An interest in astrology can only come with belief or partial belief in its truth.

[GL of Sector 2814]

What helps that belief is they know others have believed (it made sense or was experienced by others).

I don't agree. I'm interested in the dubunking of the supernatural, and I can tell you in all honesty that I don't have the slightest belief in astrology, bigfoot, ghosts, or telekenesis. There's no doubt in my mind that they're complete and utter bunk.

Heck, people used to believe that light needed a medium through which to propagate. That doesn't make me believe in luminiferous aether!

How far does this go? I'm enjoy H. P. Lovecraft, roleplaying games, and alternate history. Does that mean I believe in Cthulhu, wizards who can throw fireballs, and a universe next door where Hitler won WW2?

[Blind Eye Jones]

“Does that mean I believe in Cthulhu, wizards who can throw fireballs, and a universe next door where Hitler won WW2?”

Yes you do and if you admit it you’d be a lot happier. Ok, I’m only joking, to a point. I’m saying if these things had no possibility of truth, you would not be interested. But the supernatural must have a possibility of truth (at least to you) because that is what you’ve given your self to.

We can only give ourselves to a limited number of things. And by giving, we also get.

The hardest thing is to think all this is absurd because then it flies in the face of our giving ourselves to it. If Hitler really did live in another dimension and I believed it or didn’t believe it, how could I prove it? I can no more prove it than I could prove God lived there too. But my interest in it proves that I have given it credence, at least for me. Interest is like standing on a mat thinking you’re standing on the floor. It feels the same but there is a difference. The mat can be taken away from you a lot easier which can cause you to fall. In other words, interest is the go-between you and reality and, whether you are dealing with reality or not, it seems the same. Because interest can be taken away you can be in for a fall or a change in your beliefs. Interest is what you’ve given yourself to believe.

[GL of Sector 2814]

I also collect DC comics and Disneyana, so apparently I also believe (at least to a small degree) that Superman and Donald Duck are real.

Got it.

Well, at this point we're simply going round and round. I'll end it by simply concluding that you're wrong in every way imaginable.

No offense... :-)

[Blind Eye Jones]

“I also collect DC comics and Disneyana, so apparently I also believe (at least to a small degree) that Superman and Donald Duck are real.”

Yes, you do. If you have interest you have belief. Absurd on the face of it, but psychologically true.

Nice talking to you!