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Experts square off on 'right to bear arms' (including Alan Gura from D.C. v. Heller)
Winston-Salem Journal ^ | November 17, 2009 | Michael Hewlett

Posted on 11/17/2009 10:38:27 AM PST by neverdem

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To: Tenacious 1
The Bill of Rights was not written to protect the “states”.

The Bill of Rights protects the states from federal tyranny every bit as much as it protects individual citizens from federal tyranny. Unfortunately, the BoR has somewhat eroded over time, thanks to judicial activism.

But the Second Amendment is clearly a protection of an individual's right to keep and bear arms. The militia is the citizenry. People who don't understand this need to learn about how the Revolutionary War was fought.
21 posted on 11/17/2009 5:06:36 PM PST by Terpfen (FR is being Alinskied. Remember, you only take flak when you're over the target.)
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To: neverdem

One notes that the 2nd Amendment does NOT say ,
“...,the right of the Militia to keep and bear arms...”.


22 posted on 11/17/2009 5:41:42 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: An Old Man
An Old Man said: "I believe you are limiting your options with a statement like that."

Yours is a good point.

The cannon used by our Founders to eject their own government's navy from Boston Harbor were taken by force from their own government's Fort Ticonderoga.

The American Revolution was not a war between America and Great Britain. It was a revolution carried out by freedom-loving individuals against THEIR OWN TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT.

When Paul Revere rode to warn the countryside that an attack was planned on the people, he yelled out, not "The British are coming!", but "The Regulars are coming!"; meaning the regular army of his own government.

23 posted on 11/17/2009 9:53:34 PM PST by William Tell
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To: William Tell
See, it just depends upon which vantage point you choose to view things from.

Although I am An Old Man, I must confess that I was not present on the night of Mr. Revere's ride, and cannot state with any certanty exactly what he said. The Phrase "the British are coming" is generally attributed to a fellow by the name of Longfellow, you may have heard about him. If not, you can read some about this historic ride made famous in Longfellow's famous poem "Paul Revere's Ride" (1863) HERE.

24 posted on 11/18/2009 7:38:24 AM PST by An Old Man (Use it up, Wear it out, Make it do, or Do without.)
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To: GYL2
Not mine but interesting nonetheless:

In order to REGULATE (keep in check, challenge) the militia, the citizens have the right to keep and bear arms for that purpose.

25 posted on 11/18/2009 11:30:35 AM PST by NY.SS-Bar9 (Bread and Circuses)
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To: tet68
-- One notes that the 2nd Amendment does NOT say,
"... the right of the Militia to keep and bear arms...".
--

Although one should be mindful that "militia" comprises all able-bodied people. There is a tendency to conflate "militia" with "organized militia," and overlook that "militia" is nearly synonymous with "the people."

26 posted on 11/18/2009 11:38:47 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

The People may make up the militia but they are not
OF the militia, they are free citizens First.Just like
our armed forces, the militia is a volunteer organization. If the second amendment only entitles the militia then
it should have said “..the right of the Militia...”
it clearly says “the right of the people...”, All of the people not just the ones that volunteer to serve in the militia.


27 posted on 11/18/2009 1:05:53 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Cboldt

“militia” comprises all able-bodied people. There is a tendency to conflate “militia” with “organized militia,” and overlook that “militia” is nearly synonymous with “the people.”

Maybe I can make this clearer,

All able bodied people can make up the militia, but this
does not disbar the disabled or those who choose not to
join the militia, from keeping and bearing arms.


28 posted on 11/18/2009 1:09:43 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: tet68
-- Just like our armed forces, the militia is a volunteer organization. --

"The militia" has two components, the organized militia, and the unorganized militia. All able-bodied people are members of the unorganized militia. SCOTUS, in Presser v. Illinois said, "It is undoubtedly true that all citizens capable of bearing arms constitute the reserved military force or reserve militia of the United States as well as of the states ..."

Similarly, Unites States Code at 10 USC 331 defines the militia as "(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age ..."

I agree with your point that the 2nd applies to "the people," and not just to those who are capable of bearing arms. My point was one of definition of the word "militia," noting that it is common for people to construe "militia" too narrowly, as meaning only those who have actually volunteered for duty.

29 posted on 11/18/2009 2:03:11 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: An Old Man
Phrase "the British are coming" is generally attributed to a fellow by the name of Longfellow

Who was writing poetry, not historical documentation. That's merely one thing he got wrong, as your link states, the poem is "generally inaccurate".

Revere would not have said "The British are Comming", or the "English", because they considered themselves to be Englishmen, and were, on April 19, 1775, trying to assert their rights as Englishmen. They were not (yet and with some exceptions, notably Sam Adams and perhaps Ben Franklin) trying to separate themselves from the Mother Country.

30 posted on 11/18/2009 4:44:59 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: neverdem
Lawyer Alan Gura says that owning semi-automatic guns is constitutional.

As if the Constitution was about what individulas can or cannot do. It's about how the federal government is organized, what its powers are, what it's relationship to the states is, and what the states are forbidden from doing.

It would be much more accurate to say that the Gura said that the Constitution protects the individual ownership of scary looking semi-automatic firearms. (Of course in reality it protects the ownership (keeping) of arms of all sorts. Swords, axes, firearms, and cannon armed ships. (That can be verified by reference to the power of Congress to grant letters of marque, which authorized people to use their privately owned ships to attack ships of enemy powers, and seize their cargoes, which would not make much sense if individuals, or groups, could not own such ships. One did not need the letter to own the ships or the cannon to arm them with, just to use them in a form of legalized piracy.)

31 posted on 11/18/2009 4:57:49 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Maverick68
The Constitution which is the ultimate authority gives us the right to bear arms...

Thomas Jefferson would disagree, as do I.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.— That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men

The Constitution *protects* or in Jefferson's word "secures" the right to keep and bear arms, but it does not create it. If it did, it might say something like: "... the people shall have the right to keep and bear arms". Instead it says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". The very grammar assumes the right exists, and that it belongs to the people. The second amendment commands that it "shall not be infringed".

32 posted on 11/18/2009 5:12:01 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Puppage
EXACTLY!!

Actually the 10th amendment, generally considered part of the Bill of Rights, does protect the states.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

It protects their powers, but they have no rights. Only people have rights, not governments.

33 posted on 11/18/2009 5:16:01 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: LFOD

Remember the quote ! “ I regret that I only have but one life to give for my country !” Multiply that about 40 million times!


34 posted on 11/18/2009 5:26:29 PM PST by Renegade (You go tell my buddies om Planet' and " Battle of the Worlds " on Blu-ray ?)
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