Catholic hierarchy reaches for the levers of power (Canadians would be horrified)

Globe and Mail ^ | 11/24/2009 | Konrad Yakabuski

[markomalley]

When the House of Representatives passed a health-care reform bill this month that included a watertight prohibition on federal funding for elective abortions, outraged American feminists wondered just how one of their own – House Speaker Nancy Pelosi – could have countenanced such a concession.

(snip)

U.S. church leaders do not hesitate to call politicians out on their beliefs with a vehemence that might be considered abusive, if not irrelevant to their functions, in Canada. It happened again on the weekend when the bishop of Providence confirmed that he had instructed Mr. Kennedy's nephew, Rhode Island congressman Patrick Kennedy, to stop taking communion at mass in light of his support for abortion rights.

The same Catholic pressure tactics are playing out in the nation's capital, where the District of Columbia city council is preparing to vote on a bill to legalize same-sex marriage. The Archbishop of Washington, Donald Wuerl, is warning councillors that church charities might withdraw from the publicly funded initiatives they run to feed and house the city's poor if the bill is adopted.

In Canada, such warnings might not go far. But the political heft of U.S. church leaders is so pervasive that Mr. Obama – whose own faith became a campaign issue when he had to deny suggestions he was a Muslim and renounce his Christian pastor – felt obliged to personally sell his health-care reforms in a conference call with religious organizations in August. In particular, the President tried to debunk perceptions that a government-run health plan would cut costs by favouring euthanasia by setting up the so-called “death panels” evoked by Sarah Palin and others.

[markomalley]

I wonder what the author would think of the Manhattan Declaration...

[Doc Savage]

Canada’s Parliament has passed several pro-Islamic measures to allow provincial amnesty for terrorist atrocities as well as condoning the legal killing of daughters in ‘family honor’ killings. In other proceedings, Parliament voted to change the Maple Leaf to the Islamic Crescent. The Toronto Maple Leafs will now be called the Islamic Butchers.

[from occupied ga]

When the House of Representatives passed a health-care reform bill this month that included a watertight prohibition on federal funding for elective abortions,

Unfortunately the Catholic heirarchy has no such qualms about theft. They're all for robbing Peter to pay Paul as long as Peter is a hard working successful American and Paul is a lazy welfare parasite. They should pay a little attention to the following quote form the late Adrian Rogers, head of the Southern Baptist conference for many years.

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

[markomalley]

They should pay a little attention to the following quote form the late Adrian Rogers, head of the Southern Baptist conference for many years.

Good point.

In fact, they should pay attention to their own Magesterial teachings, such as from Pius XI, back in 1931:

Just as it is gravely wrong to take from individuals what they can accomplish by their own initiative and industry and give it to the community, so also it is an injustice and at the same time a grave evil and disturbance of right order to assign to a greater and higher association what lesser and subordinate organizations can do.

Quadragesimo Anno, paragraph 79.

[Da Coyote]

Hmmmm, tell you what, Canada. You take all the Muslems and we’ll keep those naggy Catholics. Deal?

[P-Marlowe]

Refusing to give an abortion supporter communion is actually doing the person a favor.

Those who take communion in an unworthy manner, bring upon themselves damnation. The more they do it, the more damned they become.

Kennedy should be thankful that there is a priest who takes the Communion ritual serious enough to prevent him from eating and drinking himself to damnation. If every priest did this, then Abortion could be stopped or at least seriously curtailed, since many of the primary congressional and Senate leaders who push the Abortion agenda call themselves Catholic, yet are not in Communion with the Church on this most vital issue.

[from occupied ga]

good reference - one I was unaware of - thanks.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Gee, who is it who is reaching "for the levers of power" on the pro-abortion side with their pressure tactics? Who promotes genocidal embryonic stem cell research? Who forces children into statist secular humanist schools? Who holds sway over the mainstream media and elite colleges? Who teaches the lie that an unborn child is not a human being?

"Most of us believe socialism is what the socialists want us to believe it is - a share-the-wealth program. That is the theory. But is that how it works?...
If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead it becomes the logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism, or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite."
- Gary Allen, None Dare Call It Conspiracy

[Buckeye McFrog]

the Globe and Mail is what the New York Times would be if only they had the foresight to hire away the top five editors from Pravda in the 1970’s

[Col Freeper]

Yes, and what many of them don't seem to grasp is that when the taxpayer's wallet is emptied, those same welfare recipients will inevitably want the Government to turn its eyes on the Roman Catholic Church's "wealth".

Somebody saw precious metals, artwork and other valuables in those Churches. Fill out these forms and prepare for the "Religion" Czar and his Union minions to be conducting a comprehensive audit, cause the government is going to take their share of it "for the poor".

Fill out these forms, and expect the Religion Czar and his Union minions to be conducting weekly audits, cause the Government is going to take their share of all tithes "for health care needs of the poor".

Anyone who thinks they can support the Government's taxing and spending for their pet cause had better be ready for the Government to visit them at some point for funds needed for someone else's pet cause.

Any Religion that goes to the dance with the Government better understand that the relationship won't ever, ever end with a polite goodnight handshake at the front door when the dancing is done.

[markomalley]

good reference - one I was unaware of - thanks.

Unfortunately, with regard to the social justice arm of the USCCB, it seems that any resemblance to actual Catholic doctrine is purely coincidental.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

While the church has been downgrading such ideas as Limbo and Purgatory in recent years, perhaps they do need more distinction in the laity. That is, something of a sliding scale by which lay people can “rate” themselves as to “how Catholic” they are.

On one side of the scale are those who “practice what is preached” in their lives, and truly seek communion with the church. On the other side is the heterodox leading to the heretical, be they Nancy Pelosi or a Voodoo Priestess who sees Catholic Saints as no different from Loa, plays with poisonous snakes in graveyards, and burns black candles to put curses on people while reciting the Lord’s Prayer backwards.

Or what the Voodoo Priestess does, either.

In Proverbial terms, the shepherd who cares for and is concerned with their sheep, does not do them justice in the long run if they ignore the goats among the sheep. While the shepherd might hope that the goats learn to behave themselves as sheep with gentle encouragement, the goats must first know that they are goats, so if they continue to behave like goats, they will be separated from the flock.

The same applies to “social Catholics”, who ask for support from the flock, yet personally act like goats.

How Catholic politicians regard abortion is a final, acid test of their faith. But that is an extreme. Instead they should be given a litmus test, so they can themselves see how acid they have become in their lives. If they truly reject their faith, at least they ought to see that rejection coming.

[from occupied ga]

Somebody saw precious metals, artwork and other valuables in those Churches

Actually not all that much in your run of the mill churches. They're nice, but only the ones that were built a long time ago are really opulent (like the cathedral in St Louis.) And stuff like that is not easily converted to cash that the government freebooters want. The artwork etc, seems concentrated at the very top levels of the church ie the Vatican. Most of the wealth of the church as near as I can determine by searching the web is actually in things like stocks, bonds, real estate holdings, etc.

[from occupied ga]

How Catholic politicians regard abortion is a final, acid test of their faith

I disagree. There are ten commandments, not just one. How they view the very popular, but utterly immoral government "redistribution" is just as important to me, along with lying etc.

[mosesdapoet]

The G&M commentary fits right in with my opus on Emperical Socialism. If a member of a group which advocates abortion changes their mind, or a member of a group which activly advocates gun control sides with the NRA gets tossed out. The G&M would offer salutatory headlines.
http://www.theusmat.com/

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

No disagreement there. But in practice, it has boiled down to abortion as the big issue. Again, this is why I proposed a scale of beliefs, thoughts and actions, that could be used for “self diagnosis”. It could be a lot more comprehensive.

It could almost be done as a checklist. And it can be downright basic in its questions. Just as an example, I remember how well over a decade ago, an Anglican priest publicly doubted the divinity of Jesus, but saw nothing incompatible with that belief and calling himself a Christian. He even wove some elaborate theological cloth taking beliefs from Buddhism and Animism to support his theory.

But nobody simply said “no” to him. “If you think Jesus isn’t divine, then you are *not* a Christian. It is an either/or thing.” Equivocation and rationalization is irrelevant. And this guy was allegedly clergy.

Right now, in the US, you can likely find a goodly number of people whose beliefs are so perverse as to be almost demonic, yet still think of themselves, and call themselves Catholic. For them, abortion is fine, even wishing for billions of people to die “for the environment” is fine.

They often find greater kinship with the enemies of the church, and freely advocate heterodoxy and even heresy. One of their beliefs seen more and more is that “It is up to me to say if I’m a Catholic or not.” Especially if they are in disagreement with the church on most of its doctrines.

While many such people are irredeemable, there are many who are just patently ignorant. They truly do not see their own variance. And if they did see it, they might actually be inclined to try and change themselves for the better.

[from occupied ga]

Right now, in the US, you can likely find a goodly number of people whose beliefs are so perverse as to be almost demonic, yet still think of themselves, and call themselves Catholic. For them, abortion is fine, even wishing for billions of people to die “for the environment” is fine.

And seeing wealth "redistribution" as fine is another of their traits. I just don't weight abortion any more evil than any of the other evil perverse and immoral things that governments do. Like I said before they need to follow all ten.

[Don W]

Canada’s Parliament has passed several pro-Islamic measures to allow provincial amnesty for terrorist atrocities as well as condoning the legal killing of daughters in ‘family honor’ killings.

Source, please. Otherwise, stop LYING like a liberal.

We up here have a CONSERVATIVE government, while you have hardcore COMMUNISTS leading in all three political divisions in your capital.

Clean up your own flipping mess. Look at what WE have done so far, and LEARN.

I've found that the best way to learn is to shut one's pie-hole and open one's eyes and ears.

G_d help me, I get SO angry with half-wits denigrating and insulting my country by spreading lies and falsehoods while their nation is falling into a sewer. A deeper sewer than the socialist sewer my nation is currently crawling OUT from.

BTW, the whole premise of this "article" is that Canadians attach less import to the opinion of church leaders than Americans do. While that is true of the secular part of Canadian society, believers still listen to their religious leaders here as well as any American. It's just that we are less ebullient and vocal "aboot" it.

Discretion and mild-manneredness are Canadian hallmarks, as you likely knew already.

[ArrogantBustard]

The Archbishop of Washington, Donald Wuerl, is warning councillors that church charities might withdraw from the publicly funded initiatives they run to feed and house the city's poor if the bill is adopted. In Canada, such warnings might not go far.

So much the worse for Canada. Bishop Wuerl is making no idle threat. He is completely free to tell City Council to pound sand ... and City Council can't really do anything about it.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead it becomes the logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism, or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite." - Gary Allen, None Dare Call It Conspiracy

Amen. Great book.