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To: A.A. Cunningham

Why so defensive?

I love Catholics. And I’m terrified that if I ask you for an actual quote from scripture that says priests can’t be married, you might dig one up.

Peter was married, for an example.

Catholics would have a much easier time getting good priests who were not gay if they would relax this ridiculous requirement ... if it’s so holy, why do they allow Episcopal priests who are married to become Catholic.

It’s all Church tradition which is not holy. Not wholly holy, anyway.

And it’s both tacky and irrelevant to bring up sins of protestants in this discussion.


59 posted on 11/27/2009 5:19:56 PM PST by altura
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To: altura
Why so defensive?

I'm not defensive. You're offended that anyone would point out the flaws in your argument. You refuse to admit that.

And I’m terrified that if I ask you for an actual quote from scripture that says priests can’t be married, you might dig one up.

You're terrified because you don't actually know what Scripture teaches. You're simply parroting what you've either heard or read from others who share the same ignorance. However, that doesn't stop you from making idiotic statements and publicly flaunting that you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about.

Peter was married, for an example.

St. Peter was at one time married. There is no mention of his wife in Scripture. Nor is there any mention of any of the other Apostles being married.

Catholics would have a much easier time getting good priests who were not gay if they would relax this ridiculous requirement

Incorrect. 21 of the 22 Churches sui juris which comprise the Catholic Church, ordain, as a norm, married men. All 21 of those Churches are experiencing a shortage of Priests. The Greek Orthodox Church, which also ordains married men, is also experiencing a shortage of Priests. Incidentally, the Church banned the ordaining of homosexuals in February of 1961. Had that ban been enforced by all Bishops then many of these crimes would not have occurred. The root cause of the problem is sinfulness and disobedience. Not, as you would argue, celibacy.

It’s all Church tradition which is not holy.

And you're no doubt basing that assertion on your demonstrated poor knowledge of Scripture and Sacred tradition.

"For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it." Matthew 19:12

"Then Peter answering, said to Him: Behold we have left all things, and have followed thee: what therefore shall we have? And Jesus said to them: Amen, I say to you, that you, who have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the seat of His majesty, you also shall sit on twelve seats judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for My name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall possess life everlasting. And many that are first, shall be last: and the last shall be first." Matthew 19:27-30

"Then Peter said: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee. Who said to them: Amen, I say to you, there is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Who shall not receive much more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting." Luke 18:28-30

"But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided." 1 Corinthians 7:32-33

"And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly, and not according to the tradition which they have received of us." 2 Thessalonians 3:6

"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness." 2 Peter 3:16-17

(emphasis added for your edification)

if it’s so holy, why do they allow Episcopal priests who are married to become Catholic.

Anyone can convert to Catholicism provided they complete a course of instruction, accept the teachings of the Church and profess same. The question you probably wanted to ask but lack the gray matter to properly compose was "if it’s so holy, why do they allow Episcopal priests who are married to convert to Catholicism and be ordained Priests in the Latin Rite."

Back in the 1970s when the Anglican Church began it's steeper descent into apostasy and heresy, many Anglican clerics who realized that they were members of such a group, approached the Holy See and inquired as to whether or not they could swim the Tiber and become ordained Catholic Priests. Many years of prayer, study and discussion, initiated by Pope Paul VI, were undertaken and in 1980, Pope John Paul II, with the authority conferred upon him as the successor of St. Peter, initiated the Pastoral Provision. Those married Anglican clerics who wished could convert to Catholicism and undergo the process of discerning whether or not they could receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders. The process is a lengthy one and requires the candidate to learn and fully embrace the teaching of the Church. Ordination is not automatic; it is subject to the approval of the particular Diocesan Bishop and the Holy See, and one of the conditions that the candidate must accept, prior to ordination, is that if his spouse precedes him in death, he will then adopt the discipline of celibacy for the remainder of his life. No agreement, no ordination. The "career" potential of his vocation is extremely limited as well. Other married protestant ministers who convert to the Latin Rite and seek ordination as Priests and who pass the muster of the Bishop and the Holy See, are granted a dispensation from the discipline of celibacy by the Holy See with the same condition as those ordained under the Pastoral Provision.

There are many protestant ministers who come to the realization that the Catholic Church is indeed the Church established by Christ and convert. Most do not seek ordination. Some of those who do, like the recently deceased Richard John Neuhaus, agree with the teaching of the Church on the discipline of celibacy and the Priesthood and accept the limitations placed on their vocations. They possess a much better comprehension of what a vocation to the Priesthood entails than you do.

And it’s both tacky and irrelevant to bring up sins of protestants in this discussion.

Incorrect, yet again. It's uncomfortable for you to have me mention those examples of protestants, who aren't bound by the discipline of celibacy, sexually abusing minors because it torpedoes your "celibacy is the problem" argument.

The fact is that you are way out of your league in discussing this topic. You can either remain content in your ignorance or you can put forth the effort to seek the knowledge which you lack. How you exercise your free will in the matter will be very telling.

By the way, the majority of pedophiles are married men. That's another fact that has sailed over your grape and the collective grapes of the left stream media.

61 posted on 11/28/2009 10:37:52 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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