Are atheists really fundamentalists?

Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | December 5, 2009 | Nigel Farndale

[Schnucki]

If you had to come up with a subject for a debate, one that would persuade more than a thousand people to leave their firesides on a wet winter evening to sit in a draughty sports hall, what would you plump for? It would have to be something pretty charged, you would imagine. Or at least salacious. About Katie Price, perhaps, or Tiger Woods.

But no. The motion that had them standing in the aisles and dangling from the rafters at Wellington College was: "Is atheism the new fundamentalism?" True, this was an Intelligence Squared debate, and there was a good line-up: Lord Harries, the former Bishop of Oxford, and Charles Moore of The Daily Telegraph for the motion, Professors A C Grayling and Richard Dawkins against. But still. Atheism? When did this become such a crowd-puller?

The answer seems to be: "After September 11." At one point, indeed, Dawkins said that the next atheist slogan he would like to see on the side of a bus is: "Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings." He got a cheer for that, as he did for most things, the atheists in the audience outnumbering the believers by a wide margin. That didn't surprise me. What did was their lack of courtesy. There was even the odd jeer when the Christians were speaking. I had assumed that part of the point of being an atheist was that you were tolerant of the views of others.

In fact, while it was a gripping debate, I was struck by how little empathy there was between these two groups of wise and worldly men. The professor of philosophy seemed to have no idea how insulting he was being to the bishop when he compared his belief

[freedomfiter2]

I had assumed that part of the point of being an atheist was that you were tolerant of the views of others.

Wrong, the whole point to being an atheist is hating the God you insist doesn’t exist.

[domenad]

Atheism is the belief that there is no grand deity. You cannot PROVE a negative (That’s that logic type stuff that Dawkins loves so much). Hence, athiests cannot prove their beliefs. To adoopt their beliefs, one must have....faith. And thus we arrive at religion.

[Ev Reeman]

I do not understand how people CANNOT believe in God. There seems to be an overwhelming amount of evidence. The Bible is not only just a religious book that forms the basis of the entire Christian religion, it is also a book of HISTORY. Denying there is a God is like denying the Holocaust ever happened.

[danielmryan]

I've been wondering the same thing. If so, then it explains why atheists are so tolerated by theists.

"Do we really want that fellow in our church?"

"I tell you one thing: I'd rather have them making us look bad from the outside than them making us look bad from the inside."

[IronKros]

It is true, Atheists have nothing to prove. The burden of proof is on those who believe in the supernatural.

[swatbuznik]

What did atheism have to do with flying men to the moon? Weren’t some of the astronauts religious men? I mean, I’d want a little faith in a God if I was flying in some of those frightening contraptions...

[Fred Hayek]

“Wrong, the whole point to being an atheist is hating the God you insist doesn’t exist.”

So instead of the athiest saying calmly “There is simply no God” (Of which Isaiah calls a fool), the athiest is really saying, with great anger, “No, God!”

[Misterioso]

Atheism is the belief that there is no grand deity. You cannot PROVE a negative (That’s that logic type stuff that Dawkins loves so much). Hence, athiests cannot prove their beliefs. To adoopt their beliefs, one must have....faith. And thus we arrive at religion.

There is no logic in this sentence but there are two misspellings.

[Youaskedforit]

The father of the Wright Brothers was a Minister.

[Blind Eye Jones]

My definition of atheism: people who get worked up over nothing.

[wintertime]

The atheists I know are intollerant, borish, bullying fundamentalists.

Oh....And they are the strongest defenders of compulsory attendance, compulsory tax-funded, atheistic, Marxist-driven government K12 schooling.

[wintertime]

Quick! Call 911! We need the spelling police immediately!

[domenad]

When you have no argument, go for grammar. Nice to see you keeping that tradition alive. Douchebag.

[bravotu]

“Wrong, the whole point to being an atheist is hating the God you insist doesn’t exist.”

So instead of the athiest saying calmly “There is simply no God” (Of which Isaiah calls a fool), the athiest is really saying, with great anger, “No, God!”

The way I see It,

LIKE an Angry Child Standing With A Clenched Fist in Defiance,the Atheist Must Not be Subjected to ANY Constraints , Laws or Law Giver.

[Ev Reeman]

In a Benny Hill bit there was a wall with writing on it. The writing on the wall said “God id dead.” - Fred. Then the camera pans down to more writing on the wall and this writing says: “Fred is dead.” - God.

[bravotu]

I ain’t gotta Prove Nuttin,
just hope atheist have Asbestos Underware!

[relictele]

The vast majority of ‘atheists’ have no clue and less consistency since they invariably go for the Christian God without mentioning or even considering other religions/deities including Buddha, Vishnu and especially Allah.

One would THINK that post 9/11 Allah would be highest on the list for atheists to disdain especially given the attendant level of violence from Islamists but ‘atheists’ here would rather carry on their childish campaign against their Christian neighbors.

[Moonman62]

"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings."

I see that more as a poke against organized religion than against God.

[CaptainAmiigaf]

Try to lern the dipherence betwene BAD spelling and BAD typing. That is why publishers actually have PROOF REEDERS.
I reed FR because of idears, not correkt spelling.

[IronKros]

Threats of eternal torture and damnation really do not affect those who do not believe in it.

Feel free to threaten Christians who are not of the correct denomination though. I am sure they would take your threats seriously.

[Vaduz]

Athiests = UFO spoters.

[IAmNotAnAnimal]

“When you have no argument, go for grammar. Nice to see you keeping that tradition alive. Douchebag.”

And when both reason and grammar fail, go for the Ad Hominem attack

[whodathunkit]

If one truly believes in God, it is a personal decision that needs to be respected and the existence of atheism should not be viewed as a threat.

After all, God created all atheists didn't he ???

[darkside321]

I had assumed that part of the point of being an atheist was that you were tolerant of the views of others.

Wrong, the whole point to being an atheist is hating the God you insist doesn’t exist.

---

what has being an Atheist to do with tolerance in general?
For me (i´m one :-) this only means that i don´t believe in any form of god and supernatural. For the tolerance well i guess this is up to the individual. Some people are tolerant some are not. i don´t think that has anything to do in what you believe or not in generall. btw. for me it would be difficult to hate something (god) which doesn´t exist for me.

[tiki]

That is so true. That is what I told my “atheist” brother, he just hates God.

[Ev Reeman]

Atheists may not believe in God but they probably do believe in abortion, homosexuality, gay marriage and global warming.

[RegulatorCountry]

Atheists who are driven to essentially proselytize are fundies of a different stripe, but fundamentalists they are.

They’re just selling consequence-free sex to teenagers, when you get right down to it. Preganancy? Abortion. STD? Prophylactics and drugs. AIDS? Reagan’s fault. Consequences? What consequences?

Fundamentally juvenile, is what it is. Most grow out of it. Those who don’t, become bitter and buy billboards trying to convince others of their rightness.

[HangnJudge]

I do not understand how people CANNOT believe in God.

Those who see the Universe as All that There Is...
And Those who see the Universe as a Created Thing
— With a Creator and a Purpose --

See with an entirely different set of Symbols in Their Heads
Talking to each other is like speaking
Swahili to one who hears in Shinto symbols

The sounds may be vaguely familiar, but
Neither understands the other

This is the problem with Communication between those
with dramatically different Metaphysics

[whodathunkit]

Atheists may not believe in God but they probably do believe in abortion, homosexuality, gay marriage and global warming.

I think you are assuming an awful lot.

If your faith in God is strong, atheism cannot, by definition, threaten your views. As for tying in these other issues, I assume you have some source other than your 'belief' that atheists adopt these positions by default?

[Marie2]

Yes, and I love the insight!

These folks are zealous these days. Books, billboards, bus signs, talk shows, litigation. . .

Bunch of atheist ‘fundies.

I love Christian ‘fundies, though, and many consider me to be one, even though using perfect theological criteria I guess I’m not.

[ansel12]

Atheists are mostly liberal anyway, so we don’t see many of them on a conservatve site, DU has a lot of them though.

[GAB-1955]

Why is the burden of proof on us? Isn’t agnosticism a more honest intellectual approach to the existence of God? Of course, Aristotle points to a First Cause by reason alone.

[Misterioso]

Bad thinking was the problem—the spelling and typing was a bonus.

[IronKros]

Isn’t agnosticism a more honest intellectual approach to the existence of God?

There may be invisible unicorns. However, this is highly unlikely and we have no evidence that they do. Since we do not know that they do not exist a more honest intellectual approach would be to allow for the possibility. I however will say that I do not believe invisible unicorns exist.

[GAB-1955]

What a sloppy argument, typical of the atheist who doesn’t know why he or she doesn’t believe. It also is a slap in the face of the theist, so it’s a twofer.

I don’t believe that gods are invisible unicorns, or angry old men in the sky, or any other atheist tropes. I believe in a God who created the existing universe, and who has left evidence in creation - in the human mind and heart - of this fact. Of course, we could be merely conceited amoebas, and this evidence an emergent phenomena due to the complexity of our brains. But we don’t know. And that is why agnosticism is a better state than atheism if you are not convinced of the existence of God.

[bravotu]

Ain’t No Threat.

Don’t make it any Less True.

[IronKros]

If you believe that a god exists then you are not agnostic.
Then the distinction would be between theist and deist.

I am an atheist because I do not see the evidence to support the claim that there is a god. I make no assertions that is not a god, only that my belief is that there isn't one.

Now that being said, I am more than welcome to the concept. But even then I do not see how any of the major religions would have gotten it correct.

[IronKros]

Oh, so you are just making a funny quip about eternal, unendurable torture and pain. Nice.

[bravotu]

I will Laugh like Hell when Your Big Toe Busts Hell Wide Open , My FRiend!

[bravotu]

I will Laugh like Hell when Your Big Toe Busts Hell Wide Open , My FRiend!

[bravotu]

It Really Won’t Be That Bad,
Eternity?
It Will Just Seem Like It!

[Ariewillow]

Dawkins argues that his criticisms apply evenly to all religions and that he only focuses on Christianity as that is what he knows.

I have to agree with him to a point. Certainly the Abrahamic Religions do suffer from the same flaws. Hinduism and Buddhism, and the various Pagan religeons are different however.

Your right that the current crop of Atheist arguments do not necessarily apply to them. However that I suspect is that they are trying to change Western Society, and the other religions are not a significant entrenched force in Western Society.

[Inappropriate Laughter]

Ariane Sherine and Professor Richard Dawkins pose in front of a London bus featuring an atheist advertisement with the slogan 'There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life'

Yep, that's sure a fundamentalist slogan: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life"

To: Schnucki I had assumed that part of the point of being an atheist was that you were tolerant of the views of others. Wrong, the whole point to being an atheist is hating the God you insist doesn’t exist. 2 posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:49:58 AM by freedomfiter2

I never read that "tolerance" was a creed in the Atheist Bible--oh wait, because there is no Atheist Bible. And atheists (and agnostics) don't "hate God," they simply don't believe in the Christian/Jewish/Islamic belief system. Some atheists may hate what they see as stupid/dangerous/ignorant belief systems, others just-don't-believe-what-you-believe. By the way, do you know that early Christians, before they took control of the state in the Roman Empire, were called "atheists" because they didn't believe in the official gods? Fun facts to know and tell.

Atheism is the belief that there is no grand deity. You cannot PROVE a negative (That’s that logic type stuff that Dawkins loves so much). Hence, athiests cannot prove their beliefs. To adoopt their beliefs, one must have....faith. And thus we arrive at religion. 3 posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:51:00 AM by domenad

Typical silly nonsense wordplay by thumper atheist haters. You can't "prove" that there is no Thor, no Jupiter, no Hathor, no Lord Brahma, no Apotamkin, etc. but I'll bet you don't believe that these deities exist--you are an "atheist" with regard to Thor, etc. Do you have "faith" that these deities don't exist, or do you simply find that the evidence and claims for their existence unpersuasive? And does a movement with a slogan "There's probably no God" sound like it is invested in "proof" of its (un)beliefs?

I've been wondering the same thing. If so, then it explains why atheists are so tolerated by theists. by danielmryan

Newsflash for danielmryan--you "theists" do NOT tolerate us unbelievers or heretics--if you could, you would, use Bruno's Iron Gag, the "heretic's fork," the stake, the sword, the the Judas Cradle, etc.--the fact is that Western Civilization evolved, over many, many centuries, to the point where you no longer have that power. Where the primitive Islam rules, theists are not so tolerant.

My definition of atheism: people who get worked up over nothing. 11 posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:59:37 AM by Blind Eye Jone

If your statement is original it's quite good. Of course most atheists aren't worked up at all and are simply not interested in religion.

The atheists I know are intollerant (sic), borish (sic), bullying fundamentalists.
Oh....And they are the strongest defenders of compulsory attendance, compulsory tax-funded, atheistic, Marxist-driven government K12 schooling. 12 posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:01:15 AM by wintertime

Most of the atheists I know are right-wing, conservative/libertarians who don't care what you believe as long as it doesn't involve promoting statism. (Of course there are plenty of Commie atheists, but they are not in my circle of associates.) And I know plenty of mainstream Christian theists who are "the strongest defenders of compulsory attendance, compulsory tax-funded, atheistic, Marxist-driven government K12 schooling."

I ain’t gotta Prove Nuttin, just hope atheist have Asbestos Underware (sic)! 17 posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19:56 AM by bravotu

Of the 144,000, what's your number?

The vast majority of ‘atheists’ have no clue and less consistency since they invariably go for the Christian God without mentioning or even considering other religions/deities including he vast majority of ‘atheists’ have no clue and less consistency since they invariably go for the Christian God without mentioning or even considering other religions/deities including Buddha, Vishnu and especially Allah. One would THINK that post 9/11 Allah would be highest on the list for atheists to disdain especially given the attendant level of violence from Islamists but ‘atheists’ here would rather carry on their childish campaign against their Christian neighbors. 18 posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:21:25 AM by relictele , Vishnu and especially Allah.

One would THINK that post 9/11 Allah would be highest on the list for atheists to disdain especially given the attendant level of violence from Islamists but ‘atheists’ here would rather carry on their childish campaign against their Christian neighbors. 18 posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:21:25 AM by relictele

Buddhism is a pretty "atheistic" religion; I don't think that there is an actual god in it, so it's not something atheists are going to have issues with. Vishnu is obscure for Americans. RE American and also European atheists and Islam; there is a hypocrisy that I see: Islamic fundys are (it is argued) violent and bad, and somehow that makes Christian fundys actually or potentially evil and bad. I see this in some of the left oriented science blogs, such as Panda's Thumb. From time to time I will (not under my FR name) point the hypocrisy out on those blogs.

To: IronKros I will Laugh like Hell when Your Big Toe Busts Hell Wide Open , My FRiend! 40 posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:28:34 PM by bravotu

Another fine example of theist tolerance and love.

[bravotu]

Love Your Tag Line....

[Inappropriate Laughter]

Thanks...it’s nice we can agree about something. I’ve been thinking about getting some bumper stickers made, though I’m a little concerned about keying.

[bravotu]

Yeah, I just Stir the Pot, sometimes.
That Was Months ago, Christmas.
It Would Be a Great Sticker or ‘T’ Shirt,
Thanks.