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Fresh Salamander Tissue Found in Solid Rock
ICR News ^ | December 11, 2009 | Brian Thomas, M.S.

Posted on 12/11/2009 8:38:32 AM PST by GodGunsGuts

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For the record, this post is being posted in News/Activism by the express permission of Jim Robinson, founder and owner of Free Republic:

“Debate on church doctrine and or threads on specific religious matters may be best posted in the religion forum, but the defense of religious freedom, especially against those who wish to deprive us of same belongs front and center on FR....They banned God and prayer and creationism from public schools and public places, but I’ll be damned if they’re gonna ban Him or it from FR!”

—Jim Robinson

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2203455/posts?page=78#78

1 posted on 12/11/2009 8:38:33 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; Fichori; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 12/11/2009 8:39:55 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

So, is it capable of being cloned? It may have been a “baby” and the full adult was 36 feet long!................


3 posted on 12/11/2009 8:44:06 AM PST by Red Badger (Al Gore is the Bernie Madoff of environmentalism. He belongs in jail. - Unknown Blogger)
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To: GodGunsGuts

bookmark


4 posted on 12/11/2009 8:44:27 AM PST by DocRock (All they that TAKE the sword shall perish with the sword. Matthew 26:52 Gun grabbers beware.)
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To: NewJerseyJoe

P4L


5 posted on 12/11/2009 8:45:32 AM PST by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: GodGunsGuts
But given its assigned age of 18 million years old, it shouldn’t be there at all...

No...its not 18 Million years old.

6 posted on 12/11/2009 8:45:55 AM PST by ICE-FLYER (God bless and keep the United States of America)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Where’s the required Helen pic?


7 posted on 12/11/2009 8:46:54 AM PST by bgill (The framers of the US Constitution established an entire federal government in 18 pages.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
The ICR article misrepresents the original findings. This wasn't 'meat' like a steak that was found, it was fossilized.

Better source here:.

”We noticed that there had been very little degradation since it was originally fossilised about 18 million years ago, making it the highest quality soft tissue preservation ever documented in the fossil record.”

In other words, these were soft tissue fossils, not "fresh meat".

8 posted on 12/11/2009 8:47:36 AM PST by mnehring
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To: GodGunsGuts
“fresh meat”

Tastes like chicken!

9 posted on 12/11/2009 8:47:42 AM PST by Gamecock
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To: Salamander

Have you been leaving your tissues laying around again?


10 posted on 12/11/2009 8:48:21 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Breaking News!!

"Fresh crow flesh found in ancient asphalt!!"


11 posted on 12/11/2009 8:48:28 AM PST by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Also from this paper:

The fossil structures, however, have been reinterpreted as the remains of recent biofilms that lined, but did not infill completely, voids inside the bone, thus generating hollow structures with a similar geometry to blood vessels and osteocytes..

Again, not "fresh meat" but fossils of soft tissue.

12 posted on 12/11/2009 8:50:23 AM PST by mnehring
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To: xcamel

Tampa with mountains in the background?


13 posted on 12/11/2009 8:51:35 AM PST by crusty old prospector
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To: mnehring

I have read several articles and papers on this find now, and they all say the flesh was “organically preserved.”


14 posted on 12/11/2009 8:51:47 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Read the original news release from the scientists and you'll see that ICR completely mis-states what is found, and misleads their readers about what is claimed. No surprise, really...

FTFA:

”We noticed that there had been very little degradation since it was originally fossilised about 18 million years ago, making it the highest quality soft tissue preservation ever documented in the fossil record.”

Emphasis added. All the tissue was fossilized, including the blood; what the excitement was about was the fact the cell walls were fossilized in 3 dimensions, so that we have an accurate "stone" replica of the original cell structure.

A bit different than ICR and you are trying to pass off, isn't it?

15 posted on 12/11/2009 8:52:59 AM PST by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: Salamander

Are you OK?


16 posted on 12/11/2009 8:53:18 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
For the record: “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind” [Albert Einstein] ;-)
17 posted on 12/11/2009 8:53:29 AM PST by verity (Obama Lies)
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To: mnehring

PS Supposedly ancient organically preserved soft tissue discoveries are known as “fresh meat” finds.


18 posted on 12/11/2009 8:53:55 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: crusty old prospector

Tempe, Az.
I’ve been on that road, trust me, the asphalt is really, really ancient.


19 posted on 12/11/2009 8:54:22 AM PST by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: xcamel

Now that’s just plain down right funny


20 posted on 12/11/2009 8:54:34 AM PST by the long march
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To: GodGunsGuts
Hmmm... A salamander with an oscillation overthruster...
21 posted on 12/11/2009 8:55:25 AM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: crusty old prospector

Tempe?


22 posted on 12/11/2009 8:56:14 AM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Every post, every time.

check the posting history...

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:godgunsguts/index?tab=articles


23 posted on 12/11/2009 8:57:54 AM PST by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: xcamel

That bird’s gonna need an aspirin.


24 posted on 12/11/2009 8:58:02 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (Socialism is hip until somebody loses a paycheck)
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To: crusty old prospector
“Tampa with mountains in the background?”

TEMPE; as in Arizona.

25 posted on 12/11/2009 8:59:53 AM PST by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: GodGunsGuts
I have read several articles and papers on this find now, and they all say the flesh was “organically preserved.”

Not arguing there, but "Organically Preserved" is not "Fresh Meat". It means that organic minerals replace the original structures in the fossilization process. Most fossilization is formed when inorganic compounds (such as calcium phosphate) replace the original structures, however in the case of a few of these soft tissue fossils, they are replaced by authigenic minerals, for example calcium is left, or charcoalification where the carbon remains. In this particular case, based on one of the links ICR gives, what was actually found were microscopic fossils of carbon which first covered then replaced the soft tissue structures. Just because something says it is "organic" doesn't mean it is living tissue, it is simply a carbon compound.

26 posted on 12/11/2009 9:00:53 AM PST by mnehring
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To: GodGunsGuts
Bronto burger time!


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

27 posted on 12/11/2009 9:01:45 AM PST by The Comedian (Evil can only succeed if good men don't point at it and laugh.)
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To: mnehring; GodGunsGuts; PugetSoundSoldier

BTMS* and GGG once again caught breaking one of the commandments.

This is fossilized muscle tissue, which is obvious from the photo on the press release linked by PugetSoundSoldier.

GGG, just admit you parrot what BTMS*(one of the finest science writers of our age- according to you) says and have no idea if it is correct or not.


28 posted on 12/11/2009 9:02:11 AM PST by Wacka
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To: crusty old prospector

Get new glasses, It’s Tempe.


29 posted on 12/11/2009 9:03:04 AM PST by Wacka
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
I have read many articles and papers on this find, and it seems their is a bit of confusion about what to call “fossiled” any more, seeing how they are finding so many “fossils” with soft-tissue still intact. The bottom line is, in the case of this supposedly 18 mya salamander, they have found “organically preserved” muscle tissue, which is not fossilized in the sense the fossilization has been traditionally understood. Do you consider organic muscle preservation, complete with blood vessels inflowed with blood to be “fossilized”???
30 posted on 12/11/2009 9:03:44 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Why you should not post from ICR and expect to be taken seriously. Pay attention to the last sentence particularly.

“ICR claims it “met or exceeded” the 21 Standards of Certificates of Authority. In fact, ICR did not meet several of those standards which was the basis of the THECB’s refusal to grant the Certificate of Authority. Three of those unmet standards were faculty qualifications, the curriculum, and academic freedom of the faculty and students.

ICR’s claim that it suffers from “anti-accommodational evolution-only-science enforcement policy practices” is frankly absurd. ICR has every right in the world to teach its Creationist pseudoscience to paying students and can continue to do that, so that falsifies its claim of illegal victimization by the State of Texas. It has no right, however, to demand that its graduating students be awarded a Texas-certified Master of Science degree, since under no definition of science or practice of legitimate science education in the United States is ICR’s curriculum “science.”
http://pandasthumb.org/


31 posted on 12/11/2009 9:05:50 AM PST by hurly (A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds!)
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To: Salamander

so, was it painful getting it in there? ; )


32 posted on 12/11/2009 9:06:46 AM PST by xsmommy
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To: SunkenCiv; MrB
What do you make of the finds of non-fossilized TISSUE in rocks, purported to be 18 million years old?

Maybe there are still living dinosaurs inside the hollow earth near the top of the world, just south of the North Pole.

WHAT could they possibly be finding????

33 posted on 12/11/2009 9:08:27 AM PST by hennie pennie
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To: Admin Moderator

This needs to go in religion. There is nothing here that is about “defense of religion”.


34 posted on 12/11/2009 9:08:56 AM PST by hurly (A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds!)
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To: Wacka
You are wrong as usual. It is organically preserved muscle tissue, which paleontologists commonly refer to as a “fresh meat” find. It is clear that there is some confusion as to what to call these types of finds, as is evidenced by the confusion of finding soft-tissue still intact in a supposedly 65 mya T. Rex, not to mention the soft tissue they found in a supposedly 80 mya hadrosuar...and yet the soft tissue of both has been reffered to as “fossilized” even though it is soft and pliable and had the smell of rotting flesh when the bones were cut open.
35 posted on 12/11/2009 9:10:25 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: mnehring

from the article you quoted:

“According to the University College Dublin geologists, the muscle tissue is organically preserved in three dimensions, with circulatory vessels infilled with blood.”

That means it is not petrified, does it not?


36 posted on 12/11/2009 9:10:48 AM PST by lbama
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To: GodGunsGuts

Why do you continue to break one of God’s Commandments even after overwhelming proof to the contrary?


37 posted on 12/11/2009 9:11:08 AM PST by Wacka
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To: hennie pennie; SunkenCiv; MrB

Trick is, (misleading title) that is **is** fossilized, but not in a traditional manor.. much like the famous (infamous?) hadrosaur ‘leonardo’...


38 posted on 12/11/2009 9:13:14 AM PST by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: Salamander
Fresh Salamander Tissue Found in Solid Rock

My goodness girl, how long have you had that cold?

This-is-not-a-biker-thread ping!

: > )

39 posted on 12/11/2009 9:13:59 AM PST by Syncro (TPXIII coming this Spring! March 27th to April 15th 2010, GIANT Rally in DC : >)
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To: mnehring

“According to the University College Dublin geologists, the muscle tissue is organically preserved in three dimensions, with circulatory vessels infilled with blood”

I don’t know it sounds like it is still fleshy but very tiny little pockets and parts.


40 posted on 12/11/2009 9:14:57 AM PST by GulfBreeze (Palin 2012 - For The Change You Wanted!!!)
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To: hurly
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds!-hurley tagline

Speaking of small minds...


41 posted on 12/11/2009 9:15:07 AM PST by WVKayaker (www.wherezobama.org / Obama's Excellent Adventure ...)
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To: hurly
Big deal, your fellow evos treated the human-caused global warming skeptics the same way, and look where that got them. Indeed, they equated any scientist who doubts human-caused global warming to young-age creationists...oh the sweet irony!!!
42 posted on 12/11/2009 9:15:20 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: lbama

think dessicated/mummified under unusual circumstances.


43 posted on 12/11/2009 9:15:20 AM PST by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: GodGunsGuts

From the source: ”We noticed that there had been very little degradation since it was originally fossilised about 18 million years ago, making it the highest quality soft tissue preservation ever documented in the fossil record.”

So quit being stupid. It’s not “fresh tissue” its not even tissue - its a fossil.

So you and all your “creation science” fawning fan club can put your “fresh meat” analogies away. A fossil is not meat.


44 posted on 12/11/2009 9:15:39 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: hurly
Big deal, your fellow evos treated the human-caused global warming skeptics the same way, and look where that got them. Indeed, they equat any scientist who doubts human-caused global warming to young-age creationists...oh the sweet irony!!!
45 posted on 12/11/2009 9:15:49 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: mnehring

Specific evidence please.

BTW...Are you saying that the soft tissue of the T. Rex and Hadrosaur were also replaced by exogenous organic minerals?


46 posted on 12/11/2009 9:20:10 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts; hurly

And you merrily follow the talibani creationists right back to the 7th century, and straight to gates of hell...


47 posted on 12/11/2009 9:20:48 AM PST by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: Wacka
It’s Tempe.

But, I-75 doesn't run through Tempe, but it does go through Tampa.

48 posted on 12/11/2009 9:22:19 AM PST by tnlibertarian
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To: RFEngineer

As I said, there seems to be a bit of confustion as to what to call these specimins. But “organically preserved” muscle tissue, complete with blood vessels infilled with blood, is not what is traditionally understood as “fossilized.” In fact, these kinds of soft-tissue finds in supposedly “ancient” “fossils” are typically referred to by paleontologists as “fresh meat” finds.

But you are free to bury your head in the sand as many times as you wish. Unfortunately, no matter how many times you pull your head out, the soft-tissue will still be organically preserved soft tissue.


49 posted on 12/11/2009 9:25:43 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: hennie pennie

50 posted on 12/11/2009 9:26:50 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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