Audience did not remain ‘Silent’

Democrat Herald ^ | Dec. 19, 2009 | Jennifer Moody

[MsLady]

LEBANON — “Silent Night” was not on the program at Pioneer School’s concert Tuesday, but it was sung anyway — by the audience after the kids were done.

Shortly after the children started rehearsals this fall, Principal Mark Finch had scratched the number after a parent complained that the carol’s emphasis was “too single-religion.”

Superintendent Rob Hess, in attendance Tuesday, said he didn’t see who started the carol but thought approximately 100 of the more than 700 people in the audience joined in.

Sam Long, a Pioneer volunteer and the grandmother of a Pioneer student, said the only reaction following the song was applause and cheers.

“I’m very proud they stood up for what they believe,” she said. “I am so proud, because have a godson fighting (in Baghdad) for our rights and to keep us free, and if we can’t sing just a little song, what’s he over there for?”

Dale Koger, an administrator, said Lebanon schools were reminded that it’s legal to sing about, or decorate with, the cultural trappings of a Christian holiday as long as those trappings are part of larger, nonreligious celebrations. Individual school administrators make their own judgment calls on the details.

Finch had said he made the program change in an attempt to create “a win-win for everybody” and no one complained about his decision at the time. He did not return messages asking for comment following the concert.

School Board members Mike Martin and Russ McUne said Thursday they felt Finch had overreacted.

“There were 18 songs on the program, of which one has a sacred theme to it and 17 don’t. Really, the complaint should go the other way: The program was too darned secular,” said Martin, who was in the audience. “To change that program for one person is almost a violation of everyone else’s rights.”

Board member Liz Alperin disagreed, saying she believes, if anything, some of the other songs should have been changed to reflect the celebrations of other cultures, to make sure all children felt included.

“It’s a holiday program, but it’s only celebrating one holiday. There are other holidays out there,” she said.

[DoughtyOne]

I know you’re operating under the assumption that religion should be verboten at our pubic schools, so this is in keeping with what your thoughts are (in general).

What you don’t seem to realize is that in at least some of our schools, Islam is being taught. Especially after 09/11, Korans were brought in, role playing took place including mach jihads, and kids were dressed up in middle-eastern garb.

Don’t get the idea that religion is being dismissed from our schools. Some religions are.

Imagine someone reading passages from the Bible in public school, and the class discussing it.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25997

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=islam+koran+quran+public+school&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

There needs to be an overall doctrine of proportionality.

A typical school might have 1000 children, of which 500 are Christian, 300 are secular, and 200 are of “other”, those religions that do not practice holidays, and those that have other holidays, and avowed atheists who reject all practice of religion.

Because the vast largest group are Christian, their calendar dominates, with respect to the important holidays of other religions. That is, since Jewish and Muslim children have special days, teachers should refrain from holding tests or giving critical instruction on those days.

Because school programs are electives, religious programs should still be used, but students of other religions should not be compelled to participate in or attend them.

Probably the touchiest area is not in pageants or music, but in sporting events. Sports training can be intense, and have considerable peer pressure, so need to be watched so that they do not fall into sectarianism. Competitive sports are aligned to an “Us vs. Them” attitude, which is very easy to overdo, and not just with religion, but with race as well.

[equalitybeforethelaw]

I think you missed my point. The only reason Hannukka is a big deal for Jews (only in America) is to impose a make believe equivalence on the majority on behalf of the minority. Its kind of like having a Mosque on top of Temple Mount claiming Mohammed ascended to heaven from that spot, when is well known there were no mosques in Jerusalem (much less Temple Mount) when he died. Neither method of claimed minority equivalence leads to deep acceptance or understanding. Better to have a Rosh Hashanna holiday and let all participate in celebrating something a deep importance to Jews. Personnally, I am extremely tired of having my culture and history re-written every ten years to suit the newbees needs. Christians founded and built this country. There were Jews here during the founding, but most were located in the south, not the north at that time. The so-called Jewish American culture is nothing more than a response to the ghetto culture of NY and Boston. The ghetto model does not represent the majority of America.

[SES1066]

Board member Liz Alperin disagreed, saying she believes, if anything, some of the other songs should have been changed to reflect the celebrations of other cultures, to make sure all children felt included.

The epitome of the liberal mind that spends sleepless nights worrying that somewhere somehow some minority is offended by something ('some' raised to the 4th power!) If they had their way everything would be wonderfully homogenized into meaningless pap. Of course, this 'happy ideal' would quickly run into the reef and shoals of those people who insist that they are INDIVIDUALS, like me for one! I am not going to use the sword on my opponents but that does not mean I will not practice my beliefs or muzzle them for your comfort Mz Alperin!

[turducken]

Hear Hear! It is high time that the majority stop apologizing for their faith and culture.

[Vehmgericht]

Happy Gilgamesh Day.

[I Buried My Guns]

"...Hispanic (Christian, but no Santa Claus tradition, rather the 3 Kings)..."

There is a movement in my city to divest the mexican children of anything that reeks of white people, and part of this movement is a celebration of a character named Pancho Claus, designed to replace Santa Claus. At first I and my wife thought it was nothing more than a feel-good deal among the mexis of my town, but then I read about it's more sinister side: This movement is driven by La Raza/Brown Beret-types, and has nothing to do with the spirit of love and giving, and has everything to do with racial separatism. It is one more instance of a foreign culture among us who do not want to become Americans.

[ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY]

“’It’s a holiday program, but it’s only celebrating one holiday. There are other holidays out there,’ she said.”

THERE'S ONLY ONE LEGAL HOLIDAY IN DECEMBER!

It's called CHRISTmas!!

You stupid twit!

[YankeeGirl]

I took comparative religions in my NYC public high shool.

And yes we had Bibles (I even brought in the libretto from the the Broadway show Jesus Christ Superstar (ok it was the early 70s!). We had Korans (but no muslim students that I was aware of), and discussions about the Talmud, and variations of the bible, schisms in Christianity and things I don’t remember from eastern religious as well as LDS because I remember we did have a Morman student. We read passages from these religious texts and discussed them.

I never said that instruction about world religions had no place in a well-rounded PUBLIC school education. But it should be done when the students are old enough to have some grasp of thier own religion, if they are being raised in any particular faith, and it cannot ever have the appearance of proselytizing.

Being that we are at war with fanatical religious extremist (and my 18 year old son shipped out two days ago) some insight into these fanatics is not a bad idea. And we should realize that not all Muslims are trying kill/eliminate or convert us. At least the other two members of my bowling team, the 18 & 19 year old Yugoslavian Muslim cousins weren’t.

[AliVeritas]

So let the jerks work on the holidays... and Sundays as well.

[AFreeBird]

I don’t like the audience’s solution.

I loved it!

It's that kind of grass roots push back we've been seeing all year. Sure, I have absolutely no problem if they had chosen to include other religious/religion's songs. For whatever, SN was on the list, and then dropped because of one liberal voice. They could have asked for inclusion of other songs, but they didn't. I suppose if they had not had any religious songs on the list, and had not published it beforehand, there might have been grumbling afterwards and that would have been that.

[Vehmgericht]

There could be 0% Christians in a school and 25 December would still be “celebrated” because of the fact that it is a federal holiday. Until we can abolish Christmas completely it will remain so. One objection to Silent Night not mentioned is that it was a Hitler Youth song. “In 1946 it was possible for an education officer of the local Military Government to declare categorically that “Silent Night” had become a song of the Hitler Youth and therefore was now forbidden.” Edward Peterson, The American Occupation of Germany p.285 I have news for all those working so hard for the abolition of Christianity. Once you are successful you will realize the folly of your efforts.

[AliVeritas]

Lebanon, talk to the hand, don't mess with the son.

[nutmeg]

I served on the Lebanon School Board, and was disappointed when the principal removed Silent Night from the program. Even though I am not on the board anymore, I received a lot of calls on this incident. The end result was even better.

This is WONDERFUL! What state did this take place in... is it Oregon? I can't find it in the article.

Thanks. :o)

[equalitybeforethelaw]

And a Happy Gilgamesh Day to you. May the great snake creator entwine you in his goodness and bounty. Ummpa Lummpa.

[netmilsmom]

Oh I don’t know, the Jewish family that came to our Christmas celebration every year, had NO problem with their holidays being ignored in PS. They got off all their holidays and ours too. Loved our Christmas buffet. “Just like on the Soap Operas”, was stated more than once.

Here is my thought on it. Christmas is a national holiday, based on our Christian history. I’m quite proud of that and I think it should be celebrated in PS.

If you want to celebrate something else, be my guest. Volunteer at your kid’s school and teach them the songs and lesson plans. Otherwise, you don’t really care do you?

And if you really don’t like that Christmas is celebrated in a school that is mostly Christian, do what I do, homeschool. I just put the menorah away and got Christmas dinner.

[DoughtyOne]

I’m not convinced that a comparative religion course is appropriate for minors. I definitely do not agree with the Quran being brought in absent other religion’s documents and beliefs.

While I agree with you that every Muslim is not a security threat, I don’t support the pie in the sky view that none of them are either.

There’s also the “oh he was a good neighbor” factor too. Before some of these folks “go off”, you just don’t know who is and who isn’t a potential threat. Of course that’s how it is with all people who commit crimes. Still, we do have a potential mass casualty situation with Islamic adherents, that generally wouldn’t be the case with others.

At this time, I believe every Islamic adherent is due increased scrutiny. I don’t support mistreatment, but I don’t believe we should be completely naive either. I’m not saying you are BTW.

[garjog]

“Well, at least they did not sing or play the Little Drummer Boy. I thank God for that.”

Hear, hear. If they are going to ban songs, why not ban stupid songs? Would anyone object not having to listen to these words drone on and on?

Come they told me, pa rum pum pum pum
A new born King to see, pa rum pum pum pum
Our finest gifts we bring, pa rum pum pum pum
To lay before the King, pa rum pum pum pum,
rum pum pum pum, rum pum pum pum,

So to honor Him, pa rum pum pum pum,
When we come.

Little Baby, pa rum pum pum pum
I am a poor boy too, pa rum pum pum pum
I have no gift to bring, pa rum pum pum pum
That’s fit to give the King, pa rum pum pum pum,
rum pum pum pum, rum pum pum pum,

Shall I play for you, pa rum pum pum pum,
On my drum?

Mary nodded, pa rum pum pum pum
The ox and lamb kept time, pa rum pum pum pum
I played my drum for Him, pa rum pum pum pum
I played my best for Him, pa rum pum pum pum,
rum pum pum pum, rum pum pum pum,

Then He smiled at me, pa rum pum pum pum
Me and my drum.

[gitmo]

This reminds of when they were trying to take the words “under God” out of the Pledge of Allegiance. I took a group of kids to camp, and we did the Pledge as part of one of our campfires. The youth spontaneously SCREAMED “under God” as loud as they could.

I was so choked up I couldn’t participate in the song that followed.

[Tamatoa]

Lebanon, Oregon.