Yeah, Utes. You know, the people who get unfairly blamed everytime the Muzzies start rioting and torching cars in France.
Posted on 01/08/2010 10:44:54 AM PST by rocketpreacher
“In the 1800’s, when my relatives lived at Mt. Tabor, Rusk county, Texas, they had plantations, ...”
I had family in Rusk County, TX, but they were not wealthy. Eventually, they migrated to Holdenville, OK.
Did you write the book? How much is it?
You don’t believe that the American indian only had stone tools? What do you think their tomahawks and knives and were made of?
In the time periods that we have been discussing here and pertaining to the nation to which I am ancestored, the Ani-yun-wiya, they had traded with the Europeans for steel products...also, they used blowguns quite often.
If you want to go back further in time, that’s fine...Go back far enough and the Europeans used stone impliments and weapons...before that, sticks rocks and teeth...How far back do you wish to go?
Contacts by explorers and traders with the Cherokee continued in the subsequent years. Early manuscripts make reference to a treaty between the Cherokees and the South Carolina colony made in 1684. In 1690, the secretary of the colony, James Moore, ventured into the Cherokee country looking for gold. Some Cherokee chiefs visited Charleston in 1693 demanding firearms for their wars against neighboring tribes.
By this time, they had already been trading deer hides for knives, steel and such..
My ancestors weren’t as “backward” as you would have us believe...:)
In 1969 I received $1700 in exchange for 140 acres of tribal land held in trust by the feds, $500 up front and the rest when I turned 18.
The govt then sold oil and gas leases on this land.
My grandparents and mother suffered horrible abuse from white school teachers and missionaries
My grandmother and mother are still alive.
You asked the question, "With this in mind, I ask you...If China or Russia or any other country for that matter landed on our shores to take over...would you fight them? Would you try to adapt? Would you slowly give up where you lived and what you had experienced for your lifetime?"
My answer to that was "If you were a stone age people that was merely a tribe of people instead of being an actual country like a Sweden or Egypt or Peru, then you would probably resist at first just like you did when other tribes tried to move in, or the way they resisted you when you were taking their land from them.
In the end you would deal with the daily reality of Indian life for thousands of years, you took if you were stronger, and you abandoned when you were weaker."
The indians were stone age people.
My question that you refer to was in response to this post:
“Let’s do something to honor the solders who fought the Indians as the sided with the British and the French against the Americans, and the solders who fought them out west. How about some memorial to the innocent civilians killed by the Indians? “
My response had absolutely nothing to do with implement or weapons and all to do with the philosophy of defending what is yours against an aggressor, which is exactly what the Europeans were, albeit slow aggression...
If you wish to stay with your “stoneage” line of discussion, knock yourself out...
Ho
I have read that a group of Cherokee dismantled a church, then carried each piece on their backs, and then rebuilt the church once they arrived at the end of Trail of Tears. Have you or AuntB ever heard this?
No..I haven’t heard that...I would not be surprised though...I will look for that...Thank you very much....
Enjoyed this thread...Have a good day, y’all...
LOL, it wasn't a "discussion", it was simply meant to be a post. I'm just glad that you finally acknowledged my post.
Why do you feel those who fought back against the French / British and the Indians should not be honored?
I don’t believe they are REQUIRED to live on a reservation. I think they’ve long been allowed to join the mainstream if they actually wanted to.
“My grandparents and mother suffered horrible abuse from white school teachers”
So have I, deadsteve, and I’m lilly white. So have my kids.
Bad people are bad people, now and then. Why didn’t your ‘tribe’ set up their own schools? The Cherokee did in the 1700 & 1800’s. They provided the best education in the nation for the time.
“In 1969 I received $1700 in exchange for 140 acres of tribal land held in trust by the feds, $500 up front and the rest when I turned 18.”
Well, good for you. I’ve never profited from any of the lands my ancestors once inhabited. Never asked for it, wouldn’t take it. I’d be happy to just be able to hang on the the land I bought, but the government is encroaching on that TODAY.
I’m an American first, and no taxpayer of 1969 or 2009 should owe me one cent. My ancestors owned the land outright in Texas by deed, not treaty or allotment and were not allowed any of the mineral rights on it. The injustice WAS real. When does it stop?
You cannot correct injustice with more injustice.
“Ho
I have read that a group of Cherokee dismantled a church, then carried each piece on their backs, and then rebuilt the church once they arrived at the end of Trail of Tears. Have you or AuntB ever heard this?”
Similar.
Two years before the ‘Trail of Tears’, John Ridge & others set up a community in the new Indian Territory for the arrival of the removed Cherokee. They traveled by steam boat. It’s doubtful that they ‘carried’ anything on their backs on the Trail of tears because they were rounded up by the army and put in livestock stockades, not allowed to take anything by the time they were forcefully removed. Here are some excerpts from Chapter 4 - Retribution
Blood Vendetta - The Cherokee Civil War
“Hoping to avoid bloodshed and to prepare for moving thirteen thousand Cherokee refugees west in the coming months, The Ridge Family moved themselves to Indian Territory in 1837 by steamboat, which took about four weeks. Along with them were the Boudinots and Stand Watie, with John Adair Bell returning several times to Georgia as a guide and transporting supplies and finally leading his own wagon train of Ridge Party Cherokees to Indian Territory West, when they were finally able to safely leave. Through his many scouting and commerce missions Bell gained the respect and cooperation of the United States Army to use military roads instead of the standard longer routes.
Upon their arrival in Indian Territory near the Arkansas line two years earlier, Major Ridge and the others began investing their money. They purchased land on Honey Creek, built two homes and set up a trading store.
Honey Creek flows across the Oklahoma line near Southwest City, Missouri, continues west to the Grand River near Grove, Oklahoma. The location planned as a junction of trade did just that, but proved also to be a place of bloodshed and death for the following two decades.
With nearly seventeen thousand dollars, John Ridge traveled to New Orleans and New York to purchase merchandise for the store and supplies for a printing press and missionary site at Park Hill operated by Reverend S. A. Worcester.”
An interesting note is that the Cherokee, being mostly Christian, sang Christian hymms as they walked the ice cover trails.
This is covered in the surprisingly well done documentry, We Shall Remain, Episode 3 Trail of Tears.
Winona...zot
Grew up with many Indians (that is what they called themselves) in Nebraska. The ones off the reservation did very well. Though even the reservations are changing, and have been improving.
A profound statement.
Cortez burned his ships then went on to begin the conquest of a continent. If you can't go back, you must go forward. It is the same for American negroes except that white guilt caused them to be provided with a safety net that gives them the viable alternative of failure that Americans of anglo-european and asian descent do not have.
All men are created equal. Why should not all be treated equally under the law regardless of ethnicity?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.