The Mystery of Barack Obama Continues

I don’t agree with this in that it is quite possible..indeed probable..that the family was involved with the spooks.

There are the official Langley people...and then...

there are a whole other game of players...indeed...MANY other games of players...

and there can be contracts..and the..yeah you have a contract until someone above is asked...and the no, no contract..but hey..yeah..you are working for us...etc.

and the no files on computers it must all be on paper...and the no files whatsoever players..etc

and the people working with the cutouts.....who dont work for the CIA but work on their agenda..(ahem..various players in the killing Castro scheme under Kennedy comes to mind)

There is no doubt in my mind that the family was involved in intelligence in some fashion.

The CIA will use ANYONE if it suits their purpose...well the old CIA..I don’t know about this new neutered one.

Actually, they only SAID the records are protected from disclosure. In actual fact, the Administrative Rules say that anybody who wants can get a non-certified copy of a marriage certificate for anybody they want. Death and abbreviated birth certificates too.

They just don’t want to follow their rules. They say that the rules are overridden by HRS 338-18 because statutes trump rules. BUT 338-18(a) only prohibits disclosures that ARE NOT ALREADY AUTHORIZED BY STATUTE OR BY DOH RULES. So the two are not in conflict. 338-18(a) refers one to the rules to find out what disclosures are authorized.

What 338-18(a) is trying to prevent is precisely what Fukino did - revealing an item from a certificate without the DOH having to certify what they’re saying and being legally accountable for telling the truth.

I have asked for the non-certified copies of both SAD and Madelyn’s death certificates, the marriage certificate of SAD and BHO, and the abbreviated birth certificate for Obama. The DOH has refused all of them. The ombudsman says their response is reasonable because the rules say they MAY (rather than “shall”) release copies, but UIPA says that if something has been specifically authorized for release then it MUST be released. The ombudsman’s office said if I think I’ve been wrongly denied I should take it to the Office of Information Practices (OIP - the watchdog for government transparency). But the OIP is referring all questions of what the DOH needs to do..... to the DOH.

A small sampling of why it’s taken me thousands of hours just to figure out what little I know so far.

The next step in the process is a lawsuit, but right now we have neither the funds nor the Hawaiian legal counsel to be able to do that. If we had those there’s already a good case that Hawaii law demands Fukino to reveal all the documents she relied upon to make the July 27 statement regarding Obama being a “natural-born American citizen”. If we can find anybody who’s willing to enforce the laws in Hawaii, all of Obama’s documentation should be publicly available.

Again, that is why this is a law enforcement issue, IMHO. At least part of what Berg, Taitz, and others have been asking to see is REQUIRED for the DOH to release to ANYBODY WHO ASKS, now that Fukino made her July 27 statement. There is no issue of standing. The only issue is whether there is a judge who is willing to follow the law and people who are able to file the suit.

Seems like a person would have to know whether BHO’s first marriage was recognized by Kenya. If it was a tribal marriage it may not have been legally recognized in Kenya, in which case HRS 572(1)(3)’s meaning of “lawful wife living” would come into play. I would imagine it would depend on whether the marriage was recognized as a legal marriage by the Kenyan government.

Trouble is, we can’t know that without asking Kenya. And to do that would require discovery, which no judge has been willing to grant.

“But this is not an immigration issue and it’s not BHO Jr’s derivative British and/or Kenyan citizenship that matters, it’s the lack of citizenship of his legal birth father hat matters.”

It absolutely matters if you are arguing that Obama is not eligible because he had British citizenship- and this is the argument of many.

If all you are arguing is that he is not eligible because of father..then it doesn’t matter.

There is an interesting twist that might be relevant to a Supreme COurt....if everyone knew..including the family and the Spooks..that a US citzen was the father ..but they just put Obama Sr on there for national security reasons. Or maybe the real father wasn’t listed for national security reasons and he was not a US citizen. A guy involved with the Bay of Pigs invasion SUPPOSEDLY wrote an email that said a Cuban was the father. He said Ann was pregnant when she left Cuba. I have yet to see anyone that wrote this person to ask him if he wrote that email.

Of course, this is never going to make it the Supreme Cout.. It would be shut down long before then. In fact, maybe that is why it has been shut down. Maybe a US citizen IS his father....or someone else is and none of this can come out because of National Security.

Someone brought up a point that his birth is not the issue...that Obama renounced his citizenship with the State Dept. That would mean Hillary would know it.. I never saw an answer as to how this poster knew that.

His marriage to African bride would have been recognized. HOWEVER, there are many articles on the web about problems that have taken place in Kenya when the tribal marriage wife shows up at the door to stop a new wedding..and some of these have landed in court.

Obama’s marriage to Ann - even if it was legal in the US (and it wasn’t legal)..still would not have been recognized in Kenya..and that is the root you look to since Sr was Kenyan. It is a convoluted mess.

"The ombudsman says their response is reasonable because the rules say they MAY (rather than “shall”) release copies, but UIPA says that if something has been specifically authorized for release then it MUST be released. The ombudsman’s office said if I think I’ve been wrongly denied I should take it to the Office of Information Practices (OIP - the watchdog for government transparency). But the OIP is referring all questions of what the DOH needs to do..... to the DOH."

Perhaps DOH is counting on Obama being into his second term before any lawsuit gets up to SCOTUS and back! Have you considered the possibility that Obama's legal team has cut a non-public legal agreement with HI DOH as to exactly which data fields on his long form or short form that Obama explicitly authorizes for release?

The privacy law would seem to block them from releasing anything without permission, while you assert that if they releases anything, they must release everything.

But what if there was this private signed legal release from Obama protecting both parties (and DOH from Obama) that covered just certain fields on the long form, such as "location of birth" which is Honolulu, at least on the amended most recent vital record?

In other words DOH wouldn't be required to release all of Obama's long form data fields because DOH wasn't acting under a release by Obama of all of those fields, but just a few that Obama agreed to release.

Would DOH be required to make public any private agreement they made with Obama to limit release to just a few data fields? I suspect not.

“There is no doubt in my mind that the family was involved in intelligence in some fashion.”

In my opinion, that would far more likely be KGB than CIA with Obama’s father likely a KGB controlled Pan-African Marxist coming together with Obama’s grandfather who was affiliating in HI hanging around in bars near the Navy docks with KGB asset, Frank Marshall Davis who had ties back to KGB controlled cells in Chicago.

If they made such an agreement in writing they would be required to release it when asked for it. Of course, they would never admit to having it in writing.

There is SUPPOSED to be a process whereby the DOH gives a legal verification in lieu of a certified copy. That would allow Obama to ask the DOH to verify his place of birth - nothing else - and they would send a certified verification.

Once again, however, the DOH doesn’t seem to allow for their own rules to be followed. I asked them to show me what they send when someone requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy of their birth certificate and they said they send a certified copy of their birth certificate. I’ve asked to see their policies or procedures which provide for the “verification in lieu of a certified copy” - which is the exact terminology used in their Administrative Rules. Haven’t heard back yet. In fact, they may be past their 2-week deadline to reply to me on that one.

There was a response that John Charlton got from Linden Joesting that referred to the possibility that the DOH couldn’t release information because it would jeopardize federal funding. Interesting, because she didn’t include such statements on her formal response to Terri K’s request.

They’ve been giving the “privacy exemption to disclosure” argument to everything, even though the privacy exemption doesn’t apply to what has already been specifically authorized for disclosure. It could be the real reason they won’t disclose is because Obama snuck in some federal funding threat somewhere - maybe in the presidential orders to put all the czars to work on promoting Native Hawaiians/Pacific Islanders programs. I was sure that was payback to the crooks covering for him in Hawaii, but if there was a condition attached to it, it could provide legal cover for the crooks in Hawaii.

But that still has to be disclosed.

But if that is why they are withholding information they are required to give that as their reason - rather than hiding behind a reason that doesn’t even apply.

Maybe as a double agent..or triple agent..but CIA would have known about the intelligence work.

You really need to understand and read up on Indonesia and what was taking place...Ann was VERY LIKELY involved in intelligence in some way. Don’t forget she was working for the Ford Foundation..and timmy Geithner’s father. CIA was up to their eyeballs in Indonesia..including enlisting Bing Crosby to make a porn tape to try to get rid of the leader. The cutout man they used was very influential..very powerful..and very involved in CIA antics all over the globe..INCLUDING the plot to kill Castro ( oh and he was involved in a certain suitcase to Nixon, too)

It is quite possible Frank Marshall davis was in on it or a target..or a target and then in on it.. He was investigated for years with many pages of investigations by the FBI..but suddenly the investigations stopped the year Kennedy was killed.

Just because you are being investigated by the FBI..doesnt mean you aren’t helping the CIA.....Mafiosos are good examples of this.

"THERE'S A BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA ON THE MARRIAGE INDEX.

"-that probably relates to when he married the young woman he brought to Hawaii with him. She's shown standing next to him on arrival, and because he has his arm around her and she around him, they loaded the image up with lei to cover their closeness:"

The lei doctoring is very interesting and you may well be onto an as yet undisclosed relationship with that Asian woman, who is identified in one photo.

But the vital record index release that DOH made was specifically triggered by a request for all indexes for "Barack Hussein Obama" and in my understanding, when a marriage index comes up, it always returns the names of both the bride and groom.

The only reason that Stanley Ann Dunham is included in this specific release from DOH is that she is explicitly a bride of Barack Hussein Obama, for whom the index was requested.

This vital record index release by DOH for the Dunham-Obama marriage places the two of them together in HI. Their HI University transcripts also place them together in HI in the fall of 1960. Stanley Ann's HI transcript is contemporaneously corroborated by the U of Washington where those HI credits were transferred and where the credits also appear on her U of WA transcript.

“You really need to understand and read up on Indonesia and what was taking place...Ann was VERY LIKELY involved in intelligence in some way. Don’t forget she was working for the Ford Foundation..and timmy Geithner’s father. CIA was up to their eyeballs in Indonesia..including enlisting Bing Crosby to make a porn tape to try to get rid of the leader.”

I am familiar with what was going on in Indonesia in the 1960’s. Stanley Ann was an enthusiastic communist in high school and married a known Pan-African communist labor agitator who agitated in public on our soil in HI for a KGB controlled union demonstration.

Stanley Ann was much more likely to have been an asset of the KBG in Indonesia, where I believe she worked for a time at the US embassy, than of our CIA. She may have even hooked up with Soetoro to get her to Indonesia under a great cover.
<p.
Just my opinion, based on the extensive reading list covering the good, bad and ugly of publicly reported history of CIA activity that the CIA strongly suggested that all candidates read prior to induction.

If all you are arguing is that he is not eligible because of father..then it doesn’t matter.

That is what the definition in Law of Nations says. "of parents who are citizens". So if they are not citizens, doesn't matter what the parents' country or countries of origin considers the offspring.

Thanks for the synopsis, update and hard work!

Occasionally you can find a cooperative and helpful public servant, like the clerk who helped reveal the additional pages of the 1964 Obama and 1982 Soetoro divorces in early-January 2009. She was new and because most of the senior staff in the office was on Christmas break, her helpful nature was not tainted by their political agenda. But helpful public servants in Hawaii, who are willing to make available releasable public data on Obama, are few and far between.

The only reason the 1964 Obama divorce papers were found in the first place is that a Hawaiian PI, familiar with the court system there, went in and performed a hand-search of a paper-bound, non-computerized index.

The fact the 1964 divorce took place in the “Circuit Court of the First Judicial Circuit” made it hard enough to find the record; add to it that Obama’s mama used the never-before-heard name of “Stanley Ann D. Obama” made it even more difficult for the PI to discover the records.

That said, the PI indicated that the record VERY much seemed as if it was purposefully hidden from the public record.

Seems like a person would have to know whether BHO’s first marriage was recognized by Kenya. If it was a tribal marriage it may not have been legally recognized in Kenya, in which case HRS 572(1)(3)’s meaning of “lawful wife living” would come into play. I would imagine it would depend on whether the marriage was recognized as a legal marriage by the Kenyan government.

Original records of BHO SR’s first marriage would likely be found in the Kadhi’s Courts, which preserved Sharia Law for Muslims in the Mombasa area, as discussed here on FR a few months back.

Myth exposed: Mombasa was NOT part of Zanzibar in 1961

In a third world country like Kenya that is riddled with corruption, a bribe to a public official can help shake loose documentation believed to be "lost" or "did not exist" in the first place ...

The hard part is trying to get a credible report from Kenya, when the corruption is so widely known.

For that matter, we have the same problem with the Hawaii DOH right now...

If it was 1952 i’d guess he was a KGB agent.

I know that Islam allows up to 4 wives at a time. I’m wondering if Kenya would have any problem recognizing both marriages.

But I think Obama (and his mom) played the international peek-a-boo game all along. For instance, I think he was adopted by Soetoro in Indonesia but never told Hawaii about it so he could get benefits of being Indonesian (foreign student aid, for instance) AND benefits of being American. But I have no way of confirming or refuting that so it has to remain just a hunch.

This is an excellent summation.
Bookmarked.

“Stanley Ann was an enthusiastic communist in high school and married a known Pan-African communist labor agitator who agitated in public on our soil in HI for a KGB controlled union demonstration.”

And she went to Indonesia when they were torturing people to uncover communists...during one of the bloodiest times in Indonesian history..and dragged along her young son.

IMO,There is no way the CIA didn’t know about her. Given the black hole of info...there is CIA involvement.

I am not sure why you believe she was working for the KGB and the CIA didn’t have a clue ....

She could have been a triple agent..she could have been a double agent..but IMO there is absolutely no way that she solely worked for the KGB.

There is only one way that Obama’s info could stay down such a black hole in the US..and that is the involvement of some three letter outfit... ON OUR SIDE.

If you are familiar with Indonesia then you know there was a Track Two type of situation...

And I am seeing the same thing here in the US...and it started before the election.

The CIA has used many business fronts. A certain airline comes to mind.
Ford Foundation was probably one of them.

The problem with the marriage to Ann was that there were laws prohibiting a mix of marriages...statutory and tribal..combined with an issue of just how a white women could marry a black man...

If she had gone to Kenya to get married....could she have been married in a statutory way when he was already married in a tribal way (dont think so..but maybe someone pulled some strings) ..and could a white woman marry a black man in a tribal ceremony (not sure)