Posted on 02/01/2010 11:27:55 AM PST by worst-case scenario
COLORADO SPRINGS — This tax-averse city is about to learn what it looks and feels like when budget cuts slash services most Americans consider part of the urban fabric.
More than a third of the streetlights in Colorado Springs will go dark Monday. The police helicopters are for sale on the Internet. The city is dumping firefighting jobs, a vice team, burglary investigators, beat cops — dozens of police and fire positions will go unfilled.
The parks department removed trash cans last week, replacing them with signs urging users to pack out their own litter.
Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14303473#ixzz0eJXAz9A8
(Excerpt) Read more at denverpost.com ...
>> What about the people, especially children, who do not have the money to pay for park access or to buy books?
(1) Charity. People are even more generous when they’re not taxed to death. Charitable facilities for children’s recreation and learning activities are hardly unheard of.
(2) Schools and day cares (private and otherwise) have playgrounds, computers and libraries.
If people truly value these services, they can donate the exact amount that’s being taxed to a charity to run these things ... and they’d probably be run more efficiently.
Privatization via charity and marketization is almost always superior to government control. I find it odd that I’m needing to reiterate the value of voluntary spending/giving over tax-and-spend. Since when is government the preferable solution?
SnakeDoc
I think you replied to the wrong person, chief ... I didn’t say any of that.
SnakeDoc
It may not work. The question is ... if people will pay for something with someone else’s tax money, but clam-up when you ask for their money ... is it really valuable to them?
If not ... why bother? People vote with their money ... people waste with other people’s money.
SnakeDoc
>> If the citizen want to pay the taxes for them, and have the ability to remove the service by voting to whether the parks exist or not, they can knock themselves out by going for it.
We, of all people, know that just because the majority votes for something (out of the treasury) does not mean it is an appropriate function of government.
SnakeDoc
Again I disagree. Many people were not pleased with the way the City treated the residents with the Storm Water fee/tax. The city government brought these issues on themselves. I'm sure they will be back before at the next election with a news tax increase and more tales of doom and gloom.
You may live in the Springs, but I find it hard to believe you're a fiscal conservative. Even some of my more moderate friends and liberal acquaintances voted against the mill levy increases, illegal taxes and secret utility fees last fall.
>>>>>I think Doug Bruce is an infantile nutjob.
I think Douglas Bruce is eccentric at times in his efforts to curb taxes and spending. Sometimes he goes bonkers. But Bruce is the man who almost singlehandedly did more to see TABOR become law in Colorado then anyone else. I think you hate Bruce and can't admit it.
My hometown, Indianapolis, has privately run parks. Once upon a time, the city used to run golf courses as part of its park system, but about 15 years ago, it contracted out the management of the golf courses to private companies. It's worked pretty well, at least from this user's perspective (the courses have been much better maintained since they went private). Here's a brief article discussing the contract, which was recently up for renewal.
http://www.ibj.com/city-ready-to-award-new-golf-contracts/PARAMS/article/15212
Accusations of “hate” used to be the province of emotional liberals. Now they’re apparently also the province of emotional “conservatives.”
Contracting out the operation of certain services nevertheless implies government ownership....
City run parks and libraries are not constitutional rights that are protected from the largess spending of the majority. There is a solution for cities to divest them as I said above. I'll give you one more. Having only property owners vote on issues of spending since they are the people being taxed...good luck at trying to swing that though.
Is that the best you can do?
Throwing out red herrings, whining and bashing Doug Bruce solves nothing. But why should I expect more from you. You’ve been crying and complaining for years about life in Colorado Springs. No reason to stop now. LOL
One of the best posts I have seen on FR! City governments think we are all so stupid. They threaten to close the libraries (gasp), cut the number of firefighters (horrors) and limit the number of police patrols (OMG)! Next comes the garbage and utility services. They think we don’t wonder about the PR associates and janitors assistants that could just as well be let go.
(1) I never said public parks and public libraries were unconstitutional — I said they were beyond the proper scope of government. They are.
(2) Parks and Libraries AREN’T rights ... which means they are not necessarily owed to the citizenry.
I’m less worried about the solution for cities than I am about the solution for taxpayers that are disinterested in funding porn access for homeless people (which, as I understand it, is a primary role of public libraries).
As always, private funds are at the behest of the majority — for parks, libraries, or whatever else they want.
SnakeDoc
Waaahhhwaahhhhwaaaahhhh ... there’s Reagan Man being a whiny little hypocrite... AGAIN.
Yes, I never said it didn’t. The other fellow asked how something like that would work, and I gave an example in my home city. I don’t know whether it would work elsewhere, but in Indianapolis, it seems to be a win-win for everyone.
For those not local, we have one of the Olympic Training Center located in the heart of Colorado Springs. Last year the OTC informed the city that unless they were provided with new facilities they would move to another city. The city gave in to their blackmail and agreed to provide new office facilities and other amenities to the tune of over $50 million so they would stay here.
This was done at the same time the mill levy request.
Throwing temper tantrums and casting aspersions against me, as you rant and rave on the forum, also solve nothing. You need to grow up and appreciate what a great city Colorado Springs really is and stop acting like a juvenile delinquent.
What is STILL being funded will tell a more accurate story than a list of what is being de-funded.
Right, I'll rephrase. Parks and Libraries are not constitutional rights. It' also NOT a constitutional right to PREVENT government's largess spending caused by the majority wanting to spend the funds on what the minority think is frivolous, unnecessary, and a waste of tax payers monies.
I acknowledged that freedom from city/state government largesse is not a Constitutional right. I never posed a Constitutional argument — so I’m not sure what we’re disputing here.
The fact remains, governmental largesse is a bad thing ... even when it is not unconstitutional. There is a proper role of government, even local government — protection, law enforcement, infrastructure, essential services. Perhaps State and Local Constitutions should be better written.
Playgrounds and libraries exceed that proper role. It is an overstep of government authority to confiscate money by taxation for the purposes of building recreational facilities (it remains an overstep even when dictated by a majority).
SnakeDoc
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