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To: Heliand; AFreeBird
Since when were Russia and India our enemies?

What about China? What if the Chinese were to decide to do something about Taiwan ...you think the A-10 would be worth anything at that point? The A-10 is a wonderful airframe, but against a near-peer adversary, and without air superiority/dominance ensuring that the skies are effectively sanitized, the A-10 would be useless (you read that right). It's amazing success against the Iraqi army/Republican Guard does not mean that that success is scalable anywhere. During the Cold War Apache pilots and A-10 pilots used to quip about which airframe would be the first to be brought down. Against a near-peer adversary the airspace needs to be sanitized, or else even the venerable A-10 (which is great against ZSU cannon rounds and the odd manpad SAM) would be facing double-digit SAMs and BVR AAM shots.

Furthermore, without an advanced IADS penetrator like the F-22 Raptor (the only fighter jet that can penetrate sufficiently double-digit SAM imbued advanced IADS like the S-300 systems in China due to a mix of its stealthiness, which allows it to get closer than other fighters, and its supercruise, which enables it to extend the range of a JDAM for instance significantly), how would the US survive in a region where the Chinese owned (Russian made) S-300 systems have a range that touches Taiwan itself?

I understand that love people have for the A-10, and particularly after what it did in Iraq, but people need to understand that the US will not always be fighting camel-boinking Mecca worshippers. Sometimes you have to fight a real foe that thinks with his head.

China is developing its own 5th generation fighter (the J-12/13/JXX), and even if it is a 10th of what the Raptor is, the sheer numbers of the type (plus enhanced legacy fighters such as advanced variants of the J-10, and the upcoming SU-35 with AESA radar and low supercruise) will make it tough for anything that is not a Raptor.

Bottom line ...if all the US plans to fight is camel boinkers believing in the mothers of all wars, then the A-10 is all that is needed. However, if for a moment there is a chance we may face a near-peer opponent (or even a lower tier nation that has access to modern weapons like double digit sams), then something that has far greater bite and growl is needed, and in such an environment the only thing in the A-10 that would survive is its titanium bathtub.

The A-10's success stems from the fact that there are jets above it that shoot down anything ....way before ....that could have threatened the A-10. That allows the Warthog to go and rout the great unwashed. Take away air dominance and the Warthog wouldn't have survived Saddam's SAMs, let alone advanced double-digit SAMs decades advanced over what Saddam had in 91.

58 posted on 02/05/2010 11:22:35 AM PST by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: spetznaz
It's amazing success against the Iraqi army/Republican Guard does not mean that that success is scalable anywhere.

The A-10 is essentially a modernized Junkers Ju 87. Its success is scalable because it is something in a unique and highly necessary part of war fighting and territorial occupation - the destruction of heavy ground forces in advance by air - the same role performed by the JU 87 against the Poles and Russians for the WWII Wehrmacht.

What about China? What if the Chinese were to decide to do something about Taiwan

What about China? Haven't we learned about wars in Asia yet and attempts to project power across the ocean?

Why do we need to fight for Taiwan? We didn't fight for Hong Kong and Macau, we certainly didn't fight for KMT control of the rest of China.

This is precisely the problem presented by the F22 and the F35 - a lack of perspective about what is actually important and strategic for the US. There is nothing on Taiwan of any strategic importance to the US (and the same goes for S. Korea and Japan and Singapore). There is nothing there we could not get elsewhere if necessary, except perhaps for Kobe beef.

China itself has more strategic importance to the US than anything else in Asia on account of rare earth minerals and simple potential power except only continued Russian control of Siberia.

What is truly strategically important to the US is the entire western hemisphere, and the mineral wealth in Australia and Africa and south, and sources of oil.

China is developing its own 5th generation fighter (the J-12/13/JXX), and even if it is a 10th of what the Raptor is, the sheer numbers of the type (plus enhanced legacy fighters such as advanced variants of the J-10, and the upcoming SU-35 with AESA radar and low supercruise) will make it tough for anything that is not a Raptor.

The F22 can't work from carriers, so where are you projecting its power from to combat the Chinese? Guam? Diego Garcia? Are you suggesting we are going to forward deploy an aircraft we refuse to export at Osan in Korea?

What the US really needs for force projection are aircraft that work from carriers, not stuff stationed in New Mexico and Alaska. It also needs a plane that carries some real weaponry. Lastly, it needs conventionally armed missle power projected from subs, ships, and airbases since we obviously are not going to use nuclear weaponry in any forseeable conflict.

The F22 carries 8 missles and 480 rounds. Woohoo! Such firepower! Everyone must be quaking in their boots.

The A-10's success stems from the fact that there are jets above it that shoot down anything ....way before ....that could have threatened the A-10.

A role NOT carried out by the F22 to date.

66 posted on 02/05/2010 12:23:51 PM PST by Heliand
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To: spetznaz

Also, the Russkies and the PRC are more likely to sell their stealth fighters. We could face them being flown by someone, not necessarily the Russkies or the PRC.


75 posted on 02/05/2010 4:41:26 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: spetznaz

I don’t see the need for the A-10 in a battle over Taiwan at all. This would be more of a naval and air battle. The Chins would have to eventually invade the island to take it. This would be a battle for tactical aircraft with the air superiority aircracft working to deny aerial refueling and antiair defense systems. Taiwan would quickly have to move to take the battle to the mainland to keep the Chins busy. If we are involved and we hit out at the mainland your looking at a nuclear exchange if it doesn’t happen sooner when the Chins go after our carriers.


87 posted on 02/06/2010 10:41:21 AM PST by Always Independent
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