Posted on 02/08/2010 9:55:18 AM PST by reaganaut1
SAT SCORES aren’t everything. But they can tell some fascinating stories.
Take 1,623, for instance. That’s the average score of Asian-Americans, a group that Daniel Golden - editor at large of Bloomberg News and author of “The Price of Admission’’ - has labeled “The New Jews.’’ After all, much like Jews a century ago, Asian-Americans tend to earn good grades and high scores. And now they too face serious discrimination in the college admissions process.
Notably, 1,623 - out of a possible 2,400 - not only separates Asians from other minorities (Hispanics and blacks average 1,364 and 1,276 on the SAT, respectively). The score also puts them ahead of Caucasians, who average 1,581. And the consequences of this are stark.
Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade, who reviewed data from 10 elite colleges, writes in “No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal’’ that Asian applicants typically need an extra 140 points to compete with white students. In fact, according to Princeton lecturer Russell Nieli, there may be an “Asian ceiling’’ at Princeton, a number above which the admissions office refuses to venture.
Emily Aronson, a Princeton spokeswoman, insists “the university does not admit students in categories. In the admission process, no particular factor is assigned a fixed weight and there is no formula for weighing the various aspects of the application.’’
A few years ago, however, when I worked as a reader for Yale’s Office of Undergraduate Admissions, it became immediately clear to me that Asians - who constitute 5 percent of the US population - faced an uphill slog. They tended to get excellent scores, take advantage of AP offerings, and shine in extracurricular activities. Frequently, they also had hard-knock stories: families that had immigrated to America under difficult circumstances, parents working as kitchen assistants and store clerks
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
You both have fair points. Ability to pay doesn’t anywhere near assure Ivy acceptance, but it certainly is a favorable factor for a number of schools.
Given the emphasis that many Asians place on traditional family to include doing the hard work that's required to be successful, I'm surprised by how few are Republicans. This is especially compounded by the fact that - as you point out - Asians have a long and deep history of reverse discrimination. If they were judged solely on the merits of their ability and achievement, a much greater percentage would make up the student bodies of America's great Universities.
When my husband and I went to UCLA back in the 70s it was said the letter stood for University of Caucasians Lost among Asians.
When you work hard enough to be able to get in, you should be able to get in.
When my husband and I went to UCLA back in the 70s it was said the letter stood for University of Caucasians Lost among Asians.
When you work hard enough to be able to get in, you should be able to get in.
Bi-racial? Her path is paved with gold. Thank your lucky stars she’s not from Hong Kong. Her choices would not be quite as exciting.
That's just not true anymore, and it's especially not true at the top 10 schools. A very robust percentage of students at Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford are all on some kind of tuition assistance program.
The fact of the matter is that MANY white students of means, and who perhaps have higher scores on entrance exams are turned away in favor kids who fit the right ethnic profile. This of course is done in the attempt to satisfy some misguided desire for diversity, and much of it is done irrespective of a student's ability to pay full tuition.
Neither race nor sex should have any bearing on college admissions.
The author's premise is debunked with him admitting the Asian American population in the US is 5% and yet universities are admitting more than three times that. One in 5 at Harvard is Asian.
There are lots of Asian flute players at my daughter’s middle school. All of the flute player in the top band are Asian. Next year, my daughter will probably one of the few white kids playing flute in the top band.
I think Asians place a high emphasis on the arts and on academics.
My kids say that the Asians kids’ parents are very hard on them. They will get in trouble for not doing well in school, and they don’t have much free time.
There are some Asian kids that take tons and tons of AP classes, and they are in summer school taking extra classes.
My son has given up trying to compete with that. He’s into theater, and there are not a lot of Asian kids in that. It takes a lot of time to be in the high school shows, and it definitely brings down his grades. I’ve told him to continue with being in theater. It’s a good balance for his academics. He still has over a 4.0, and is already taking an AP class when he is just a sophomore. I think he’ll end up with about 5 or 6 AP courses by the time he graduates, instead of 10.
I believe the Military (Enlisted, and Junior Officers) is the closest such place - at least it was when I was in 40 years ago.
Maybe it's part cultural, part economic, part practicality .As children they might have an easier time finding string teachers in their community. It's an easy instrument to carry around and store in the home, especially if you live in an urban setting. It's also a prestige instrument and that might dictate their choice of instrument. And this is so un PC, but maybe they have a better natural ear for the instrument.
They have the discipline to practice,practice.Also, after visiting China music is a large part of their history.
I've never thought of a violin as a prestige instrument. In my family we have a trumpet player and a French horn player and I've never thought to put instruments in a class. But now that I ponder on it, I would hold a brass or wind instrument in higher regard than a percussionist, even though to be good at any instrument, there is a huge amount of dedication required
Heh? Thats very funny. In fact , there was a huge uproar when Harvard instituted Jewish quotas in 1922. Jewish representation dropped from 21 % to 10 % in 1933. By 1930 the other Ivy League schools had even fewer, in the lower single digits in Princeton and Yale. In fact , the Yale medical school in 1935 admitted less than 1 % Jewish; only 5 of 200 were admitted.
You don't really think thats what the "Jews" were hoping for, do you? BTW, the way that Harvard and the other schools justified it, they used a quota system to get more Mid Western state students admitted, independent of merit based testing (sound familiar?)
True, race should not play a part in admissions, but sometimes race just reveals itself.
Say you have three students all with the last name Johnson. The first names are Rashad, Nguyn, and Brad. Not so hard to identify the heritage there.
Wouldn't they use yellow highlighter?
Not to start an argument about the pros and cons of the Texas Top 10% ruling, the numbers here equal those of the ivies proving once again the author is full of hogwash. Also, setting aside the tweaking of the law that goes into effect in 2011 that adds in minimal SAT scores and what amounts to limiting UT to the top 8%. Now, with that obligatory statement out of the way...
In Texas, which has a 5% Asian American population, we have a law stating that if you are in the top 10% of your graduating high school class, you get automatic admission to the state university of your choice. Let’s look at UT in Austin. The Top 10% made up 80% of the incoming 2008 freshman class. Asian Americans made up 18.1% of the 2008 undergraduate population and 15.5% of the total UT student population. Those percentages are very similar to those from the ivies in the article. Since Texas has this law, it leaves very little room to racial profile - which is exactly why we have the law. Bottom line, the author is an idiot.
http://www.utexas.edu/academic/ima/sites/default/files/SHB08-09Students.pdf
Well, brwnsuga, if you want to experiment, if you have a younger child, tell him or her not to check any racial box on the SATs. And when it comes to the applications, check White (?) for the Harvard and UConn apps, and African-American for the Yale and Rutgers apps, and so forth.
On the other hand I feel your pain about the selection process. I'm sure glad my daughter got her scholarship so I do not have to sweat it out... :)
the problem is that not all schools are equal. Top 5% in some schools is like the top 20% in others.
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