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Taliban Sniper Teams Attack U.S., Afghan Troops
Fox Newshttp://www.freerepublic.com/perl/post_article ^ | 2-15-10 | AP story

Posted on 02/15/2010 7:22:53 AM PST by smokingfrog

MARJAH, Afghanistan — Sniper teams attacked U.S. Marines and Afghan troops across the Taliban haven of Marjah, as several gun battles erupted Monday on the third day of a major offensive to seize the extremists' southern heartland.

Multiple firefights in different locations taxed the ability of coalition forces to provide enough air support as NATO forces forged deeper into the town, moving through suspected insurgent neighborhoods, the U.S. Marines said.

In northern Marjah, an armored column came under fire from at least three separate sniper teams, slowing its progress. One of the teams came within 155 feet and started firing.

-- snip --

Marines said their ability to fight back has been tightly constrained by strict new rules of engagement that make their job more difficult and dangerous. Under the rules, troops cannot fire at people unless they commit a hostile act or show hostile intent.

"I understand the reason behind it, but it's so hard to fight a war like this," said Lance Corp. Travis Anderson, 20, from Altoona, Iowa. "They're using our rules of engagement against us," he said, stating that his platoon had repeatedly seen men dropping their guns into ditches before walking away to melt among civilians.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: marjah; oef; roe; snipers; taliban

1 posted on 02/15/2010 7:22:53 AM PST by smokingfrog
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To: smokingfrog
"They're using our rules of engagement against us,"

Yes. That's why Obama wanted the ROE changed. It's important that our soldiers die, that we lose the war, and that we come home with our tails between our legs. Obama wants Islam to win one here.

2 posted on 02/15/2010 7:24:39 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (I was born in America, but now I live in Declinistan.)
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To: smokingfrog
Marines said their ability to fight back has been tightly constrained by strict new rules of engagement that make their job more difficult and dangerous.

Political correctness from this administration too. It's pathetic and deadly.

3 posted on 02/15/2010 7:30:12 AM PST by b4its2late (A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own.)
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To: smokingfrog
One must realize that the "rules of engagement" are decided upon by the civilian masters of the military. In this case, the CIC is ultimately and personally responsible for them.

Every hurt or killed soldier that is a result of these "rules of engagement" must - repeat MUST - laid at the feet of the CIC. In public. Loudly! Never ending. Until the current CIC is thrown out of office.

Here are the new rules of engagement:
"Do not be afraid to be powerful. Cold War-era gambits of proportionate response and dialog may have some utility in dealing with practical terrorists, but they are counter-productive in dealing with apocalyptic terrorists. Our great strengths are wealth and raw power. When we fail to bring those strengths to bear, we contribute to our own defeat. For a superpower to think small, which has been our habit across the last decade, at least, is self-defeating folly. Our responses to terrorist acts should make the world gasp!" And....
"When in doubt, hit harder than you think necessary. Success will be forgiven. Even the best-intentioned failure will not. When military force is used against terrorist networks, it should be used with such power that it stuns even our allies. We must get over our cowardice in means. While small-scale raids and other knifepoint operations are useful against individual targets, broader operations should be overwhelming. Of course, targeting limitations may inhibit some efforts but whenever possible, maximum force should be used in simultaneous operations at the very beginning of a campaign. Do not hesitate to supplement initial target lists with extensive bombing attacks on nothing if they can increase the initial psychological impact. Demonstrate power whenever you can. Show; don't tell! (Do – don’t talk!)"

4 posted on 02/15/2010 7:30:50 AM PST by Logic n' Reason (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.)
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To: smokingfrog
Why are we not using the resources at hand to minimize US and coalition forces casualties? Our men should be thought of first!

How do you tell Mrs. Jones that her only son had to die in Marjah because we were worried about collateral damage to some goats and a mosque!


5 posted on 02/15/2010 8:01:15 AM PST by CapnJack
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To: smokingfrog
Marines said their ability to fight back has been tightly constrained by strict new rules of engagement that make their job more difficult and dangerous. Under the rules, troops cannot fire at people unless they commit a hostile act or show hostile intent.

"I understand the reason behind it, but it's so hard to fight a war like this," said Lance Corp. Travis Anderson, 20, from Altoona, Iowa. "They're using our rules of engagement against us," he said...."

That is outrageous and unforgivable. Same old excrement as in Vietnam. That is why I never volunteered back then for service - even as a youth I was cynical about our government's lack of commitment to total war. What if WW2 had been fought that way? That Afghan village should be carpet bombed to rubble if it will save one American's life.

6 posted on 02/15/2010 8:27:07 AM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: smokingfrog

This is a common tactic used to delay the advance of a superior invading force so the main body of your force can escape capture or destruction. If our generals have not taken this into account and set up traps on their escape routes with airpower and special forces we have a serious problem with our military leadership. My guess is that the Taliban is going to get its a$$ handed to them on a platter in the next couple of days.


7 posted on 02/15/2010 8:36:31 AM PST by BobinIL
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To: smokingfrog
Reminds me of a conversation I had with with '#2 Son' (82nd ABN, following GW1):

~~~~

'#2 Son': "...and then our column started taking sniper fire from the trees along the river...

Dad (later): "Did you guys ever get those snipers out of those trees?"

'#2 Son': "What trees...?"

Dad: LOL!!!

8 posted on 02/15/2010 8:42:54 AM PST by TXnMA (D'Aleo re Hansen's "GISS" temperature database: "Non Gradus Anus Rodentum!")
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To: smokingfrog

Whoever came up with and approved those ROE’s should be tried for treason.


9 posted on 02/15/2010 8:55:07 AM PST by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: smokingfrog
The undeniable truth is that when you park the B-52s you are not serious about winning. As a former combat infantryman I really appreciate what the Big Blue Wrecking Crew can do to save American lives.
10 posted on 02/15/2010 9:17:09 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: Republic of Texas
"Whoever came up with and approved those ROE’s should be tried for treason."

No, whoever came up with these ROE's should have to walk point.

11 posted on 02/15/2010 9:18:07 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law
"No, whoever came up with these ROE's should have to walk point."

...then tried for treason. Posthumously if necessary.

12 posted on 02/15/2010 9:19:55 AM PST by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: RedRover; jazusamo; Girlene; 4woodenboats; Grimmy; xzins; smoothsailing; lilycicero; bigheadfred; ..
(( ping ))

Marines said their ability to fight back has been tightly constrained by strict new rules of engagement that make their job more difficult and dangerous.

McChrystal and Ubanga have American blood on their hands.

13 posted on 02/15/2010 9:23:31 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
From an article out of today's Stars & Stripes:

"Hey sir, where's it coming from?" an American shouted to his platoon leader, 1st Lt. Gavin McMahon of Brooklyn, N.Y.

"Somewhere over there," McMahon said. He gestured west.

Then the American soldier got hit. The bullet hit the shoulder piece of his protective vest, and bounced down into his chest.

Spc. Benjamin McQuiston of Tucson, Ariz., was just ahead of the man, who cannot be identified until his family is notified in keeping with U.S. military regulations.

"When the shots went off, I heard him yelling. I thought he was scared. I was yelling too," McQuiston said later. "Then I heard him coughing. It sounded weird. I looked back and he was coughing up blood."

With shooting all around, soldiers cut away the injured man's shirt, and put a chest seal on the wound to prevent air entering.

"I'm going to be good," the man said. He was able to walk and had the energy to shout an obscenity at the Taliban.

But it wasn't over.

Spc. Andrew Szala of Newport, R.I., tried to keep the injured man talking, conscious.

American troops say the Taliban can fire on them, then set aside their weapon and walk freely out of a compound, possibly toward a weapons cache in another location.

"The inability to stop people who don't have weapons is the main hindrance right now," McMahon said after the firefight. "They know how to use our ROE against us."

The patrol arrived back at its camp late in the afternoon. Sgt. 1st Class Norm Neumeyer of Pittsburgh walked over and told them their day wasn't over. They had to find the shooters. After a brief pause, they put their gear on and headed back down the road.


14 posted on 02/15/2010 9:35:32 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Natural Law
B-2 and B-52 bombers are to be upgraded. Not sure what we're saving them for except a possible show-down with Iran.

A little carpet bombing here and there would sure get the terrorist's attention, wouldn't it?

15 posted on 02/15/2010 9:45:09 AM PST by smokingfrog (You can't ignore your boss and expect to keep your job... www.filipthishouse2010.com)
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To: xzins

They need to stop playing cops and robbers with the bad guys and just kick their asses!


16 posted on 02/15/2010 9:48:21 AM PST by smokingfrog (You can't ignore your boss and expect to keep your job... www.filipthishouse2010.com)
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To: smokingfrog; Lancey Howard

What they’re doing to our troops in Afghanistan is simply wrong. And I’m a fan of McChrystal...worked with his brother for some time.

But it’s wrong for him to permit this to continue. Any soldier in a firefight should be able to shoot at anyone he even “feels” is an enemy. Period. You’ve got to leave it up to the discretion of the guy who has boots on the ground in his location. He’s the only one who truly knows.


17 posted on 02/15/2010 9:53:00 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: TexasRepublic
If WWII had been fought that way, German would be the native language here. Upside to it, I can guarantee that Zero wouldn't be president☺
18 posted on 02/15/2010 9:55:26 AM PST by Quickgun (As a former fetus, I'm opposed to abortion. Pray for Obama,Psalms109:8)
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To: Logic n' Reason

The only ROE:

Kill them all until the last bastard that is willing to die for his cause is dead - then sue for peace.


19 posted on 02/15/2010 9:55:47 AM PST by PIF
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To: Lancey Howard

I have to agree, Lancey.

It’s good to go after the hearts and minds of the citizenry as we did in Iraq but it’s not good to tie our military’s hands with ROE that cost their lives, the current ROE have to be lifted.


20 posted on 02/15/2010 9:59:26 AM PST by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: smokingfrog

Upgraded smupgraded - all talk and no money. There’s no will to will in the Hussein regime, only to lose - any conflict with Iran will be designed by the civis to be lost. Gates is a yes man and a loser.


21 posted on 02/15/2010 10:00:01 AM PST by PIF
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To: Quickgun
If WWII had been fought that way, German would be the native language here. Upside to it, I can guarantee that Zero wouldn't be president

Every black cloud seems to have a silver lining. Sometime one just has to look harder to see it.

22 posted on 02/15/2010 10:01:02 AM PST by sport
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To: 240B; AdmSmith; Berosus; bigheadfred; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ...
Marines said their ability to fight back has been tightly constrained by strict new rules of engagement that make their job more difficult and dangerous. Under the rules, troops cannot fire at people unless they commit a hostile act or show hostile intent.
So, turn off the cameras. The lying criminals who support the Taliban, or are IN the Taliban, are going to make accusations regardless of what is done.
23 posted on 02/15/2010 10:11:59 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: Logic n' Reason

Great post. paraphrasing McArthur, “Anything less than total warfare is immoral.”


24 posted on 02/15/2010 10:04:29 PM PST by semaj (Just shoot the bastards! * Your results may vary. Void where prohibited.)
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To: semaj
Great post. paraphrasing McArthur, “Anything less than total warfare is immoral.”

Well.....we - as a committed nation - are either at war, or we're not.

If we are...then why are we not fully engaged and using every bit of power we possess?

And, if we're not, let's stop waisting the oh so precious American blood in these 10th century religious "animal farms" and bring the troops home - NOW!

25 posted on 02/16/2010 7:09:31 AM PST by Logic n' Reason (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.)
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To: Logic n' Reason

This makes me wish I was a mercenary without ROE.

Give me the the intel, the transport and the target.

Thank you God.


26 posted on 02/16/2010 7:15:32 AM PST by Eye of Unk ("Either you are with us or you are for the terrorists." ~~George W. Bush)
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To: Eye of Unk

What is your fee for services rendered?


27 posted on 02/16/2010 7:22:49 AM PST by verity (Obama Lies)
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To: Logic n' Reason
Counterinsurgency operations exact a heavy toll on a nation's psyche.
28 posted on 02/16/2010 7:28:42 AM PST by verity (Obama Lies)
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To: verity

Well I tell you what, I hope it “might” happen that there may be some sort of group out there without any ROE that restricts, hampers or in any way to restrict mission success.

Maybe there is, maybe its not possible,maybe its best left unsaid but just in case I hear there was 10 or 20 years from now I’ll be satisfied that someone dared to work around the problem.

If it is, I’m proud to support them.


29 posted on 02/16/2010 7:29:13 AM PST by Eye of Unk ("Either you are with us or you are for the terrorists." ~~George W. Bush)
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To: semaj
Clausewitz:
Now, philanthropists may easily imagine there is a skillful method of disarming and overcoming an enemy without great bloodshed, and that this is the proper tendency of the Art of War. However plausible this may appear, still it is an error which must be extirpated; for in such dangerous things as War, the errors which proceed from a spirit of benevolence are the worst.

30 posted on 02/16/2010 7:38:35 AM PST by ctdonath2 (Pelosi is practically President; the Obama is just her talk show host.)
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To: smokingfrog

“A little carpet bombing here and there would sure get the terrorist’s attention, wouldn’t it?

It is not carpet bombing that gets their attention half as much as Mr. JDAMS. A B-52 can carry scores of JDAMS — and they can hit a pickup truck-sized target every time. The way we defeated the Taliban in 2001 was to use the BUFFs as aerial artillery dropping one smart bomb at a time, guided to the target by a Special Forces operative on the ground. This was even more devastating than carpet bombing because it was one target - one bomb. That gets to be very demoralizing when you are shooting at Americans and then out of nowhere (and without warning) a 2000-pound bomb explodes on your position.


31 posted on 02/16/2010 7:45:22 AM PST by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: verity
Counterinsurgency operations exact a heavy toll on a nation's psyche.

The British Empire certainly found this out when they lost to those rotten upstart Colony insurgents.

The only reason the Brits didn't declare full out war, was that the colonies were not a country.....and that fact that the Brits owned the colonies.

I cannot and will not support you in the spending of American blood on "insurgents".....

Either delcare war....or get the hell out.

32 posted on 02/16/2010 8:11:04 AM PST by Logic n' Reason (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.)
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To: Logic n' Reason

I hate to break this news to you: Your opinion is only an opinion.


33 posted on 02/16/2010 9:50:06 AM PST by verity (Obama Lies)
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To: verity
I hate to break this news to you: Your opinion is only an opinion.

And don't I know it!!! Besides, most of my opinions suck!

Ah well, at least my spleen is empty for now!!!

34 posted on 02/16/2010 4:45:58 PM PST by Logic n' Reason (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.)
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To: smokingfrog

The Commander in Chief has set ROEs that are getting troops killed. Dereliction of duty. Impeach him.


35 posted on 02/16/2010 4:52:23 PM PST by spodefly (I have posted nothing but BTTT over 1000 times!!!)
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To: Logic n' Reason

Posting on FR is a cathartic adventure ;-0


36 posted on 02/16/2010 4:56:35 PM PST by verity (Obama Lies)
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