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George Will: Sarah Palin and the mutual loathing society
The Washington Post ^ | February 18, 2010 | George F. Will

Posted on 02/17/2010 8:27:21 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

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To: SmokingJoe
Yes Joe, people who read John Locke and Aristotle are ruining the country.

Jeez, the Palin Patrol is now down to you and the guy that believes in Geocentrism.

God help us.

301 posted on 02/18/2010 10:18:42 PM PST by GunRunner
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To: SmokingJoe
First of all, crude oil prices fell sharply in 2008:

Yes, by the end of the year. But they peaked in the summer and didn't start to crash until after the fiscal year ended (fiscal 2008 and calendar 2008 aren't the same). That accounts for virtually of the state's revenue increase.

Now did you care to look at what happend to state revenues during fiscal 2009?

302 posted on 02/18/2010 10:19:44 PM PST by curiosity
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To: GunRunner
It's amazing that Palin supporters will throw Aristotle and John Locke under the bus to make their candidate look good”

You are kidding right?
Why on earth would I "throw Aristotle under the bus"?
Aristotle is no friend of mine, so I couldn't possibly throw him under the bus.
Believe it or not, old as I am, Aristotle was far before my time.
It's fine if you want to read Aristotle. But when you go about claiming that reading Aristotle is a pre-requisite for being president of these United States, that's where I draw the line. Reading Aristotle has nothing to do with whether one is a very good effective president or not.
Right now, our # priority is that we need someone who is tough enough to slash spending(despite loud squealing from the lefties), and bring down our crippling debts.
These Ivy League drunkos we have in Washington don't know the meaning of the words “cut spending”.

303 posted on 02/18/2010 10:26:32 PM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
Yes Joe, we need less Aristotle and Friedman and more "you betchas". We'll throw in a few "get the government on the side of the people"s.

Jeez.

304 posted on 02/18/2010 10:30:54 PM PST by GunRunner
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To: GunRunner
Yes Joe, people who read John Locke and Aristotle are ruining the country”

The Ivy League progressives like Timothy Geithner, who have been running this county for decades, are the ones that lead us into crippling debts.
It wasn't people like Sarah of Wasilla that run up $13 Trillion federal deficits.

305 posted on 02/18/2010 10:32:22 PM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: GunRunner

We need less Teleprompter inspired “clean, well spoken negroes” with ZERO real life business expedience, and more people who have had real life business experience, met payrolls, and been through the hard times of business cycles, tightened their belts and survived with crippling their business with debts. Aristotle reading idiots, who don’t even know how to balance a budget, need not apply.


306 posted on 02/18/2010 10:38:30 PM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: curiosity

Bingo.


307 posted on 02/18/2010 10:42:12 PM PST by FTJM
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To: SmokingJoe
I don't really understand your narrative.

You first claimed that people who read Aristotle, Friedman, and Locke, somehow ruined the country.

Now you're saying that since a pencilneck know-nothing like Geithner is in charge of DOT, that somehow that makes room for someone like Sarah Palin.

I'd have no problem with Sarah the Governor, Sarah the Congressman, Sarah the Senator, Sarah the Secretary of Energy. But the tangents you've gone on to make the case for Sarah the President are just weak. Real damn weak.

I can't believe that you don't think that there's even another candidate out there that might be a better fit. It fits my original point that this is a big case of celebrity worship. I haven't seen any reasons from you that make the case that she is the best person for the job.

308 posted on 02/18/2010 10:42:21 PM PST by GunRunner
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To: curiosity
Now did you care to look at what happend to state revenues during fiscal 2009? “

Funny you should ask that.
She tried a novel idea when oil prices fell in 2009, and Alaska's revenues fell.
It's called SPENDIG CUTS.
Now we all know 0bama doesn't even know the meaning of anything called “spending cuts”.
0bama could learn plenty from Sarah Palin.

309 posted on 02/18/2010 10:44:16 PM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: GopherIt

Thanks.


310 posted on 02/18/2010 10:44:56 PM PST by mick (Central Banker Capitalism is NOT Free Enterprise)
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To: SmokingJoe
You seem to put a lot of emphasis on "meeting a payroll".

Meeting a payroll is a matter of paying your staff within your available budget.

I've read Article II of the Constitution, and "meeting a payroll" isn't really in the job description.

I have a friend who works for ADP; he knows everything there is to know about meeting a payroll and what's involved. I don't think he's ready to be President though.

311 posted on 02/18/2010 10:47:58 PM PST by GunRunner
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To: GunRunner
You first claimed that people who read Aristotle, Friedman, and Locke, somehow ruined the country”

Given that people ao attend the Ivy Leagues are likely to have read Aristotle, as compared to say a guy that drives a tuck, or runs a fishing boat business, and given that it was the same Ivy Leguers who have been running our government for decades, its not exactly libel to say that the Ivy Leaguers drove us into deep debts is it? Look at 0bama(an Ivy Leaguer), in just 12 months he quadrupled our budget deficit, and is already making projections of doubling our total debts in just a few short years, yet he keeps right on spending.

312 posted on 02/18/2010 10:53:05 PM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: GunRunner
You seem to put a lot of emphasis on “meeting a payroll”.
Meeting a payroll is a matter of paying your staff within your available budget”

That's something, that neither 0bama, nor most of his cabinet have ever done.
Even Blanche Lincoln, a Democratic Party Senator, was forced to ask 0bama, why close to none of his cabinet have ever met a payroll?
The 0bama government couldn't meet it's financial obligations within budget wright now, if tey out a gun to their heads. They have no idea how.

313 posted on 02/18/2010 10:58:31 PM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
I'd agree that your average truck driver would be a much better President than Obama.

But it looks like you're main argument for Sarah Palin is that she's not Barack Obama.

Well, that's great, but there's 300 million other people in this country who are also not Barack Obama. I believe that there might be a really solid crop of candidates for the job, but her negatives, inch deep knowledge of the issues, and ditsy delivery make her a liability.

I'm going to need something more than "She's not Obama" to vote for her in the primary.

Like I said, I'll support her 100% for an appointment to Energy Secretary, but the Presidential race is serious sh*t. I'm not going to turn it over to someone who can't even get through a Katie Couric interview without sounding like an 8th grade speech class student.

314 posted on 02/18/2010 11:04:27 PM PST by GunRunner
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To: GunRunner
How many of the 300 mllion people in this country have been governors before?
Apart from Kennedy, Nixon, and Bush Snr and now 0bama, all our presidents since 1960 have bean governors, no?
Plus plenty of governors end their administrations in deep doo doo. There are very few governors who were as good as Sarah Palin was. Just look at California, Michigan, Illinois, even here in New York.
All this sets Sarah Palin apart, as one of the people who could effectively lead this nation. Of course there are plenty of excellent people who could lead this country as well. That's what the primaries are there for.
The good news is, it doesn't matter one whit, whether you and George Will think she is qualified or not. The voting masses(who don't read George Will, and if they did, think he is an idiot anyways) will decide that.
315 posted on 02/18/2010 11:18:41 PM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
Apart from Kennedy, Nixon, and Bush Snr and now 0bama, all our presidents since 1960 have bean governors, no?

No, I believe you forgot Ford and Johnson. So your point is that 4 out of the last 10 Presidents have been Governors, and since Sarah Palin was a Governor for two years, she automatically ready to be President?

Sorry, I don't find that compelling.

I don't have the greatest confidence in the "voting masses", since last time they gave us McCain in the primary, Obama in the general, and a continued Dem Congress.

The fact that she was popular for the brief period while she was Governor might be admirable, but staying popular for a short period of time is not really a challenge.

If you want to gauge GWB's Presidency for just the first two years, he was probably one of the most popular Presidents in history. What is difficult however, is keeping that popularity going, and keeping a long record of good decision making. Even Reagan wasn't a perfect President across two 4 year terms. Would Palin have been the most popular Governor in the nation if she had served two full terms? History tells us that's doubtful.

One thing I wish Palin supporters would realize, is that the left does not 'fear' Sarah Palin. The meme around here seems to be that the left bashes her because "they're so scared of her".

I can assure you that's not the case. If you talk to any leftist or peruse the lefty blogs, they're literally praying that we nominate her. It's similar to the way we felt about Howard Dean in the 2004 race. They literally think she's a potential laughing stock, and are optimistic about Obama's re-election if she's nominated, and I think they're right.

316 posted on 02/19/2010 8:02:48 AM PST by GunRunner
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To: curiosity
But president? I'm sorry. She just doesn't have the vision, depth, experience, or gravitas.

Sorry. I just can't see what you're seeing.

I fear that what many are seeing (even FReepers) is a provincial accent (JFK had one, too), a less than Ivy League education (Reagan didn't have one, either) and what the mainstream media wants them to see.

I'm not necessarily in her camp. But I feel compelled to defend her against what I see as unwarranted attacks.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

317 posted on 02/19/2010 8:32:41 AM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: GunRunner
I believe you forgot Ford and Johnson”

Ford never got elected by anybody. He was first of all nominated to be Vice President, then became president when Nixon resigned.
Anyone can be nominated, if they don't have to work at getting elected.
Lyndon Johnson first became president when Kennedy died, not by winning an election by running for president, albeit he later won by himself in 1964.

and since Sarah Palin was a Governor for two years, she automatically ready to be President?”

You bet.
0bama was US Senator for 2 years, with no legislation or accomplishment to to his name. That never stopped him from running and winning as president. I'll take a 2 year governor(2 1/2 years actually), over a 2 year US Senator any day.

Sorry, I don't find that compelling”

That is relevant how?

The fact that she was popular for the brief period while she was Governor might be admirable, but staying popular for a short period of time is not really a challenge. “

The fact that she had the highest approval ratings of any governor in the country while she was governor, based on solid accomplishments, is the only thing that counts.
If you think it's easy to retain high approval ratings for a “short time” just go ask 0bama. His approval ratings were in the toilet after just a few short months, after starting with super high approval ratings.

If you want to gauge GWB’s Presidency for just the first two years, he was probably one of the most popular Presidents in history”

Any president will have super high ratings after 9/11. Bush's ratings were heading down fast before 9/11.
Better comparison is 0bozo’s fast sinking ratings, which started after only a few months. And that is with the media in 0bama’s pocket 24/7.

One thing I wish Palin supporters would realize, is that the left does not ‘fear’ Sarah Palin”

Oh yes they are.
You can't have the left, on the one hand keep insisting that someone is “irrelevant” and is “not a thread in 2012”, yet spend more time attacking her than any other politician in the country. You only constantly attack the source of your fear. That's basic psychology. If someone is not a threat, you don't waste most of your life attacking them.

318 posted on 02/19/2010 8:37:24 AM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: GunRunner
I can assure you that's not the case”

I can assure you, you are talking nonsense.

If you talk to any leftist or peruse the lefty blogs, they're literally praying that we nominate her”

Chortle.
I have read some of those articles too. They are dripping with fear and hatred. On the other hand, the leftists who are more honest with themselves, have actually come out and written articles, that essentially say that any leftists who dismiss her chances for 2012, are only fooling themselves. Some of the more astute leftists, who are clued in, have even gone as far as to admit that the way things are going, she has a very good shot at clobbering 0bozo in 2012.

It's similar to the way we felt about Howard Dean in the 2004 race”

Howard Dean flamed out in just a few short months, and was reduced to side show. On the other hand after the 2008 elections, the liberal media swore that was the end of Sarah Palin. Today she has written her book, sold 2 million books in just a few weeks, had thousands wait in sub zero temperatures to see her for just a few seconds, is in demand everywhere for speeches at 6 figure sums, is a sure fire high TV ratings magnet, and is going from strength to strength.
Let me know when thousands of people wait in freezing cold to see Howard Dean, or anyone pays Howard Dean $100,000 just to hear him speak will ya?

They literally think she's a potential laughing stock,”

Yeah...like how they thought Scott Brown was a laughing stock and had zero chances of winning in Massachusetts..as late as just 3 weeks before the election...till he clobbered them.
Chortle.

and are optimistic about Obama’s re-election if she's nominated, and I think they're right.”

No less a person that Dick Cheney declared just yesterday that 0bama is a one termer. I agree.
The CNN poll just this week had only 44% of voters ready to reelect 0bama.
No president with with approval ratings of just 44% has ever won re-election.

319 posted on 02/19/2010 8:45:32 AM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: GunRunner
I think it comes from the fact that I felt silly defending her "executive experience" to my liberal acquaintances during the campaign; I didn't truly believe the arguments I was making about how mayor of Wasilla and 18 months as Governor made her qualified for the most powerful position in the world, and I'm not going to be put in that position again.

Really? In a direct comparison with the totally experience-free Obama. And what could be the defining difference between Alaska and, say, Arkansas? And since when did we have a higher bar for the Vice-Presidency than for the Presidency?

I honestly don't think the problem was with you. Instead, it was the pig-headedness of your liberal acquaintances.

That said, I rate the mayoralty of a small town as legitimate executive experience. And the governorship of a small state as not dissimilar from the governorship of a large state. Alaska, after all, does have 17,700 employees.

After a certain point, size isn't really a measure of experience. For example, would you rate the CEO of, say, Dr Pepper as less qualified than the CEO of Coca Cola?

Moreover, those jobs she's had, she appears to have done very well. Accomplishment counts, too.

Speaking of which, exactly what did Clinton accomplish in Arkansas? As distinct from what he claimed to accomplish?

I respect your tone, as well. We'll just have to agree to disagree. We can re-visit the argument as the primaries approach.

I'll be anxious to learn your secret candidate, as well. I'm not committed to Palin. There are other candidates whom I might support (none of them ran in 2008, however). But I believe her candidacy (if there is one) is something I could vote for. But, even though I'm not in her camp, I feel compelled to defend her from what I perceive to be unwarranted attacks.

320 posted on 02/19/2010 8:49:38 AM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: Brices Crossroads
Get a clue! The original income tax fell on high earners, and was pushed by the populists starting in the late 19th century. The given reason was those "wealthy industrialists" in the north/upper midwest were "hogging all the wealth" away from the "little man" in the rural states.

Stop trying to rewrite history to fit your own attempts to redefine "populism" ie the philosophy of failures who resent that others are more successful than them.

321 posted on 02/19/2010 8:56:53 AM PST by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: okie01
I fear that what many are seeing (even FReepers) is a provincial accent (JFK had one, too), a less than Ivy League education (Reagan didn't have one, either) and what the mainstream media wants them to see.

Actually, what you say is true more for her supporters than her detractors. Most Palin fans like her primarily because of her provincial background and lack of contact with teh nation's elite. I've seen many Freeper Palin worhsipers admit as much.

I don't think any Palin skeptics on FR care about her accent or where she went to school. I certainly don't. My concern his her lack of any coherent political philosophy or substantive ideas about governing.

YOu don't need an Ivy education or a New England accent to impress me. I care about the ideas in your head, not about your accents or what's written on your resume.

What is it that you find so compelling about her?

322 posted on 02/19/2010 10:27:06 AM PST by curiosity
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To: SmokingJoe
She tried a novel idea when oil prices fell in 2009, and Alaska's revenues fell.

Okay. So you admit that high oil prices, not Sarah Palin, were responsible for the high revenues in 2008. Good. That's progress.

It's called SPENDIG CUTS.

Right. She did such a great job with those spending cuts, the state ran a $1.65 billion deficit in fiscal 2009. What a fiscal conservative she must be! LOL.

323 posted on 02/19/2010 11:15:26 AM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity
Okay. So you admit that high oil prices, not Sarah Palin, were responsible for the high revenues in 2008. Good. That's progress.”

I admitted nothing of the kind.
You don't hear so good. I just showed you a graph showing that oil prices actually collapsed in 2008.




http://www.mongabay.com/images/commodities/charts/crude_oil.html
I also pointed out to you, that there are plenty of other states that produce huge quantities of oil, yet none of them manged to double revenues in 2008, yet Sarah Palonn did.

324 posted on 02/19/2010 11:35:40 AM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: curiosity
Actually, what you say is true more for her supporters than her detractors”

ROFL!
Now why don't you get back to me when you get back to reality?

Most Palin fans like her primarily because of her provincial background and lack of contact with the nation's elite”

I support her because she fought corruption in her own party(when her party lost touch with the masses who put them in power, and became corrupt), took on the establishment, and whupped them, putting plenty of them in orange jump suits in jail, and governed as a fiscal conservative, and never lost sight of the fact that she was there to serve the people who put her there. The congress in Washington need to go to Sarah Palin for lessons on how to govern properly.

325 posted on 02/19/2010 11:52:38 AM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: boop
"How the hell does a columnist like Will afford a 19 million dollar home? I think Bill Gates’ home only cost something like 23 million."

Will lives on Grafton St in Chevy Chase. I've seen his home, I have friends in his neighborhood. His home isn't worth anymore than than $2.5 million, TOPS. And, in any other city, it's value is well less than $1 million. This journalist is smoking crack if he/she/it thinks it's worth $19 million. It's ridiculous.

326 posted on 02/19/2010 11:59:33 AM PST by OldDeckHand
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To: SmokingJoe
You don't hear so good. I just showed you a graph showing that oil prices actually collapsed in 2008.

LOL. Do you have any idea when the fiscal year ends in Alaska?

Let me give you a clue: it ends in June.

Now do you know when oil prices collapsed in 2008? I'll let you go figure that out for yourself. But let me give you a hint: they didn't start going down until well after June.

327 posted on 02/19/2010 12:41:40 PM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity
Do you have any idea when the fiscal year ends in Alaska?
Let me give you a clue: it ends in June”

Chortle!
Can you read a graph?
Oil prices started collapsing long before June, and it was a very sharp, steep drop. Plus no other oil producing state in the country doubled revenues in 2008.

328 posted on 02/19/2010 12:46:07 PM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
Chortle! Can you read a graph?

Yes I can. Obviously, you cannot.

Oil prices started collapsing long before June, and it was a very sharp, steep drop.

Nope. Before shooting your mouth off, you ought to look at the raw data that underlies the graph; it's kind of hard to eyeball it when the labels on x axis aren't very clear.

If you go look at the raw data, it just so happens that oil prices peeked in July of 2008. They did not start their sharp decline until October, long after Alaska's 2008 fiscal year ended.

Here's a source that has the raw data, in case you don't beleive me:

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_Rate/Historical_Oil_Prices_Table.asp

Plus no other oil producing state in the country doubled revenues in 2008.

LOL. You're not very good with numbers, are you?

If you were, you would realize that's because no other state produces anywhere near the volume of oil that Alaska produces. We're talking orders of magnitude here.

329 posted on 02/19/2010 3:04:59 PM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity
“LOL. You're not very good with numbers, are you?

If you were, you would realize that's because no other state produces anywhere near the volume of oil that Alaska produces. We're talking orders of magnitude here.”

Yeah?
Will you excuse me while I laugh?
Read this:

U.S. Crude Oil Production 2007 by Major Producing States and Federal Gulf of Mexico (Million Barrels per Day)


http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/crudeproduction.html
It just so happens that Texas produces more oil than Alaska
Not only that, California is not that far behind Alaska either.
Ooops! There goes your "no other state produces anywhere near the volume of oil that Alaska produces. We're talking orders of magnitude here.”, right out the door. :)
You don't have a clue what you are talking about do you?
Alaska doubled state revenues in 2008, because Sarah Palin introduced a new system of splitting the oil profits, in a program called “ACES.”.

330 posted on 02/19/2010 3:56:04 PM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: curiosity
Actually, what you say is true more for her supporters than her detractors. Most Palin fans like her primarily because of her provincial background and lack of contact with teh nation's elite. I've seen many Freeper Palin worhsipers admit as much

Gee. I've encountered a lot of FReepers who were put off by her accent, the assertion she "didn't have a good education, even the fact she seemed to like country music. If you're not one of those, power to you.

I don't think any Palin skeptics on FR care about her accent or where she went to school. I certainly don't.

You don't need an Ivy education or a New England accent to impress me. I care about the ideas in your head, not about your accents or what's written on your resume.

Ah, good for you. But others do.

My concern his her lack of any coherent political philosophy or substantive ideas about governing.

What is it that you find so compelling about her?

Obviously, we're not listening to the same person. To me, she's Reagan in a skirt. The same openess, the same honesty, the same philosophy -- uncomplicated and resolutely American. And I've been a Reagan fan since 1964.

Philosophically, being the President of the United States is pretty simple. First, national security. Second, let the country work.

331 posted on 02/19/2010 5:24:05 PM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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btrl


332 posted on 02/20/2010 12:17:27 AM PST by Clinging Bitterly (We need to limit political office holders to two terms. One in office, and one in prison.)
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