Europeans step up pressure for global halt to death penalty

AFP via Yahoo ^ | 02/24/10

[MrB]

I think so too. Life in prison without possibility of parole short of exonerating evidence.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

The death penalty causes global warming.

[PapaBear3625]

The basis of my viewpoint is that there are no perfect solutions, only trade-offs.

If you execute a person, there is always a chance that he was innocent of the crime he was executed for. If you imprison a violent killer, there is always a chance that he will kill again, either a guard, another prisoner, or somebody outside if he escapes.

My aim is to come to a trade-off which maximizes benefits for the law-abiding public. As such, for somebody who is accused of murder who has no prior history of violence, I would imprison him. But for somebody with a long, proven history of violence, he has demonstrated beyond doubt that he is a danger as long as he lives, and thus society would benefit from his execution, even considering the possibility that he is innocent of the crime he's accused of.

[PapaBear3625]

Perhaps it is an heritage of the 60s’ utopianism: the fantasy that one can ‘cure’ criminals, and that all criminals are ill people in reality, who are less to blame than we think they are. In brief: ‘they’re victims too, you know?’

The problem with "cured" felons: how can you be sure he's cured, and is not just an intelligent sociopath who has figured out how to convincingly pretend that he's cured?

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

One bit of evidence of approaching death is the inability to excrete.

[Ayn And Milton]

Yep, good comment. I think I referred to this somewhere earlier in the thread. There is a chilling movie on this topic, with Edward Norton in a classic role, as someone who knows ‘how to play the game’. You may want to look up his name at http://www.allmovie.com or http://www.imdb.com if you love a good crime movie.

See: psychologists are no gods. They are perhaps a bit less impressionable than most of us, but still they are.

And a defining characteristic of a sociopath is that he/she has little or no real human feelings in the realm of shame and guilt. Hence someone like that can easily pretend; just because for him/her, nerves, trembling, sweating, and crying do simply not come into the equation.

[redfreedom]

“People who are “nut cases” aren't detered by anything, because they are not rational. Neither is it just to execute them, because they literally don't understand what they have done wrong. The people we are seeking to deter are those who quite clearly and cold-bloodedly work out that killing someone is worthwhile and/or profitable to them.”

I agree, nut cases aren't deterred by anything because they are not rational. I cannot think of any reason why we should keep such people in live storage. We simply cannot afford keeping such people alive in those expensive dormitories they call prisons. I don't care if they can help it or not. If they are genuinely guilty of a horrendous crime, given the chance for appeal, then that's it. It's over.

Just because they are not rational does not mean they are stupid. I personally know a psychopath, she has no conscience. She truly does not understand what she is doing wrong. (she is sub-criminal) Yet she knows the difference between right and wrong. She does not know this because her conscience tells her what's right and what's wrong. She's learned the difference through life's experiences. Example: She knows cheating on her husband is wrong. That's why she goes through great lengths to conceal it. The guy is totally ignorant, she has no remorse.

And in my opinion I see no difference between a nut case or those that “clearly and cold-bloodedly work out that killing someone is worthwhile and/or profitable to them.” None of such people have the same degree of conscience as the rest of us or they simply would not be working on plans like that.

[PapaBear3625]

I took a break from working earlier today, and caught the tail end of "Witness for the Prosecution" on HBO, a 1957 movie with Tyrone Power and Marlene Dietrich. At the end, Tyrone was acquitted of murder charges, and he admits to his defense attorney that he actually did do it (he's a complete sociopath). His wife (Dietrich) perjured herself to convince the jury of his innocence. (At the end, he makes the mistake of telling his wife that he's leaving her and running off with a cute new girl, so she stabs him and justice if finally done).

I have some personal experience with sociopaths, with an ex-girlfriend having been murdered by the guy she took up with after me. He was very slick. Nobody suspected he made his real income from forgery. When she found out and confronted him about it, he killed her and went on the run. He was eventually captured and should still be in prison.

[Ayn And Milton]

Thanks again for writing. ‘Witness For The Prosecution’ is in fact one of my all time favourites, from Billy Wilder. Charles Laughton has a wonderful role as Sir Wilfried Robards.

So I can exactly see what you want to say with citing this movie.

That personal story of yours is extremely unsettling... reminds me of an old saying, which has it that the Devil is an elegant and charming person when he presents himself. I don’t know the exact line, but I myself experienced that this is true; not in a manner as grave as you and your ex-girlfriend did, by the way.

[montyspython]

The Europeans appose the death penalty but approve abortions... uh huh.