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China Bets Big On America
Forbes ^ | 3/5/2010 | Gordon G. Chang

Posted on 03/05/2010 1:32:25 AM PST by bruinbirdman

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To: JasonC
Your comment #28 is one of empty rhetoric, childish insults against conservatives and hysterical statement of faith in the current, socialist debt paradigm. There is no proper argument in it.

I'll say it again. The government will cut the jobs and incomes of enormous numbers of employees and other recipients, or the bond markets will collapse in the near future. The government cannot continue the debt that it has amassed. That's an analytical conservative expectation.


41 posted on 03/05/2010 2:42:07 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: dennisw
"In the end the wacko hyper-capitalists screw themselves unless they have connections in the socialist government. Like Goldman-Sachs does"

And many more than most of us know--most, actually. Have a look at what Bill Gross had to say in the third paragraph.

Investment Outlook
Pimco/Allianz
Bill Gross | January 2010
Let’s Get Fisical


42 posted on 03/05/2010 3:05:51 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: JasonC
"There are plenty of open jobs and plenty of lazy people collecting unemployment too long not moving their tails to get them. Those too "proud" to do something low level get no sympathy from me. Be too proud to take handouts instead."

Agreed, in regards to those who will be unemployed during the next year or two: government employees in business families with ties to socialism and foreign, communist governments. Let their effeminate husbands and fathers live in closer proximity to them for a while and keep them out of our faces. ;-)


43 posted on 03/05/2010 3:12:58 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: dennisw

Most of the handwringing about debt in concert with support for continuing the trade paradigm from the same people doesn’t make sense. Do you know why? I know of one reason. They’re all either employed or supported by various levels of government, or taking advantage of regulations and other “gatekeeping” partnerships to hold onto monopolies in their respective markets.

I discovered that by watching meetings at county and state levels and following up on the so-called “environmentalists”: family members, employees, former employees and investors of businesses that use them to prevent competition. That’s why I say that we need the defaults to come.


44 posted on 03/05/2010 3:18:33 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: familyop

Defaults are fine by me. Many contracts need to be revised. Anyways they will happen no matter what I think


45 posted on 03/05/2010 3:49:43 PM PST by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: familyop

I read Bill Gross saying to only invest in companies that are “connected” with the Feds and/or other levels of gov’t. Invest in companies that have an in. That are rent seekers


46 posted on 03/05/2010 3:52:24 PM PST by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: JasonC

I don’t think so. Just phony numbers. If US is producing so much, why the huge trade deficit


47 posted on 03/05/2010 3:54:47 PM PST by 4rcane
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To: familyop

http://www.amazon.com/Free-Trade-Doesnt-Work-Replace/dp/0578048205/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267824576&sr=1-2

Hot new book critical of “free trade”
The same people who were pimping free trade for the last 30 years are the ones on Wall Street who created the MBS and credit default swaps crisis


48 posted on 03/05/2010 3:58:13 PM PST by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: chilltherats
"The misery of economic enslavement to China could be over except for clean-up in very short order if we control two things: taxes and labor unions."

Agreed! Avoid unnecessary purchases and become more self-sufficient. That will take care of the tax problem, which will, in turn, take care of the mostly women's government employee unions (including teachers).


49 posted on 03/05/2010 4:20:18 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: aquila48
"...traders are more like a school of fish..."

That does happen with thinly traded stocks that come with a lot of uncertainty, but we're talking T-bills here.  T-bills are the lowest interest, stodgiest, studied-to-death securities in existence. 

50 posted on 03/05/2010 5:33:01 PM PST by expat_panama
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To: JasonC; r9etb; dennisw
US wages are the highest ever and about the highest in the world.

--and they're worth every penny.  When we do cost estimates for international construction we use the same unit prices regardless of the nationality of the labor, because American high priced labor gets the same work done per dollar as the cheaper third world worker.

Third-worlder's aren't lower wage because of tariffs, it's because they're just not as productive.

51 posted on 03/05/2010 5:39:00 PM PST by expat_panama
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To: JasonC

http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/index.php?page=REAL+WAGES++1947-2000

Nice try. Real US wages peaked in 1972 according to many sources not just this website. And we ran a trade surplus back then. USG was in the black too. All forms of debt were nothing compared to today


52 posted on 03/05/2010 6:15:37 PM PST by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: familyop
On the contrary, it is fact against your raving hysteria, and it is a direct challenge to put up or shut up. Bet money that I'm wrong about the course of US GDP, or admit you are just spinning wildly.
53 posted on 03/05/2010 6:52:47 PM PST by JasonC
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To: 4rcane
The huge trade decifit is half the size it was before the recession and 3% of GDP. It grew in the boom, not in the smash, when US investment was running $2 trillion a year. We weren't saving $2 trillion a year and imported a third of the capital. On the recession, the rate of business invesment fell 20%, and the savings rate soared, narrowing the gap between them.

The net worth of a country is not determined by its balance of trade. The net worth of the US household sector is $54 trillion and rising. It is largely driven by changes in the value of existing capital assets we own. Little things like all the real estate in the country and nearly all of the stock, all the private businesses, etc.

In an average year, the value of the pool of capital Americans own can and does swing $3-5 trillion. That is an order of magnitude larger than the balance of payments. Whether our investments are sensible, not how we finance them, determines our future wealth.

54 posted on 03/05/2010 6:57:27 PM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC

The debt side of the ledger looks awful all around. You have a one sided perspective on the economy and just tout the happy face stuff. The good things you mention are outweighed by crushing debt that can only be dealt with by debt repudiation, default or hyper-inflation


55 posted on 03/05/2010 7:01:13 PM PST by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: dennisw
Once again, we see the luddite populist know-nothings do not believe in the mere existence of economic growth.

US GDP at the end of 1972 was $1.286 trillion. Today it is $14.461 trillion. Personal income after taxes then was $925.9 billion. Today it is $11.046 trillion. Those are increases of 11.24 and 11.93 times, respectively. The CPI has risen 5.1 fold over the same stretch. Real income after taxes are more than doubled - up 2.34 times - a rate of increase of 2.3% a year faster than inflation.

The US is one of the richest societies in human history and this is about the richest we've ever been. The peak of the recent cycle was, in every measure there is. And in 3 to 5 years we will be the richest we've ever been, with the regularity of a Swiss watch.

Your not finding this convenient for your doom mongering ideology is not required for its truth.

56 posted on 03/05/2010 7:05:05 PM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC
"Bet money that I'm wrong about the course of US GDP, or admit you are just spinning wildly."

I'm already doing so by avoiding unnecessary purchases and becoming more self-sufficient. I can already produce a few useful things, unlike the parasitic trash being paid by your anti-American economy. Spend that debt, and enjoy the ride afterwards.


57 posted on 03/05/2010 7:09:15 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: JasonC
http://cafehayek.com/images/various/aheshort.jpg

You can spout whatever lies you want but I gave you the charts that do not lie. That real wages are down from 1972. That would be real wages in the real world. Not Jason’s fantasy world

You are an empty head cheerleader ..... I hear the LA Rams are hiring


58 posted on 03/05/2010 7:13:41 PM PST by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: dennisw
Wrong. Debt of the household sector is $14 trillion and that $54 trillion net worth is after all of that debt. The household sector has $67.5 trillion in assets. You want the particulars by line item?

$18.25 trillion in real estate
$11.5 trillion in pension funds
$7.4 trillion in corporate stock directly held
$6.5 trillion ownership of small businesses
$6 trillion in CDs and savings accounts
$4.2 trillion in mutual fund shares
$2.4 trillion in corporate bonds directly held
$1.4 trillion in money funds directly held
$1.23 trillion in savings-form life insurance

$1 trillion in municipal bonds directly held
$600 billion in treasury bonds directly held
$380 billion in checking accounts and currency
$200 billion in US savings bonds
$100 billion in directly owned mortgages etc
Against those major assets, they have these major liabilities

$10.3 trillion in mortgages
$2.5 trillion in consumer credit

And a few hundred billion scale miscellaneous loan categories (bank loans not otherwise covered etc)

The American people are not paupers. Stop peddling commie class war bilge.

59 posted on 03/05/2010 7:16:53 PM PST by JasonC
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To: dennisw
How many people working? How many hours worked? What capital accumulated? We are vastly wealthier today than we were two generations ago, and our income is higher.
60 posted on 03/05/2010 7:18:08 PM PST by JasonC
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